it seems ideal to have a step down transformer and then have a rectifier in a ps. Why then do i see smps's with filter then rectifier and then transformer? And then 2 main caps?
rectification in smps
Collapse
X
-
Tags: None
-
Re: rectification in smps
Why would we convert to dc before ac operated transformer? Just to power a transistor? -
-
Re: rectification in smps
Many simple power supplies do simply rectify the input AC voltage into a DC voltage, then run it through a transformer to step it down to the correct DC voltage. The problem with this is you need a huge power supply to get a small amount of current and they cannot regulate themselves. What this means is that a 12V supply would probably put out 16V with no load, and under full load may only put out 10V or 11V.
DC transformers that can handle the same amount of current as an AC transformer are substantially bigger. We can solve this with an SMPS, or Switched Mode Power Supply.
In a common SMPS like a computer power supply, the input AC voltage is filtered by simple filtering components like X caps and Y caps and coils. The input filtering is mostly to keep the power supply from putting interference back into the wall. It is then rectified by a bridge rectifier or a 4 diode setup into DC and stepped up to around 320V DC, this is, as you would say, "pulsed". Because of this "pulsing", the primary capacitors store and filter that. The primary switching transistors then convert that back into a high frequency AC voltage to be able to take advantage of the smaller, more efficient AC transformer. The out put of the transformer is then rectified back into DC using diodes. The output of the diodes is "pulsed", and smoothed out using capacitors and coils.
One of the best things about this is that the primary transistors frequency of how fast they switch "on and off" is controlled by a controller. When the power supply comes under a load and the voltage starts to drop, the controller can increase the frequency that the transistors switch in order to keep the voltages within their set limits.Comment
-
Re: rectification in smps
mains voltage is varying ac voltage between 90v and 250v and a with a frequency between 45 and 65 Hz, depending on the country you're in.
Were you to convert this to a lower voltage using a step down transformer, you would need a very large and heavy transformer to achieve 500-1000w, ratings that are common for power supplies.
So you rectify this to dc voltage and maybe use an active power factor circuit to prepare the input for the transformer, up to 400-420v dc voltage smoothed out by those large capacitors on the input side.
Then you use mosfets or transistors or whatever floats your boat to send pulses through the smps transformer, at a frequency that depends on the amount of load on the power supply... but usually the frequency is up to 100-150 kHz... as you ca see much higher than 45-65 Hz, which explains why smaller specialized transformers can be used.
The output voltage is then rectified and capacitors are used to smooth out the output and then an optional PI filter (inductor plus capacitor) to smooth out the output even better.
PS. Read these applications notes to understand better switching power supplies (click on the PDF icons in the page, if you don't get a pdf directly)
AN1114 Switch Mode Power Supply (SMPS) Topologies (Part I)
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/id...pnote=en532115
AN1207 Switch Mode Power Supply (SMPS) Topologies (Part II)
http://www.microchip.com/stellent/id...pnote=en536097
Power Semiconductor Applications - chapter 2 CHAPTER 2 Switched Mode Power Supplies
Last edited by mariushm; 03-01-2014, 10:05 AM.Comment
-
Re: rectification in smps
"Many simple power supplies do simply rectify the input AC voltage into a DC voltage, then run it through a transformer to step it down " You do not feed the transformer with DC, you feed the transform with AC, in case of linear power supply for 120VAC, the primary side is fed with 120VAC 60Hz (US), if it is step down transformer, then the output voltage will be lower, that out put is then fed into rectifier, it can be half-wave, full-wave with center tap transformer, or full-wave bridge (no center tap).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear...d_power_supply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch...e_power_supply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RectifierNever stop learning
Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956
Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999
Inverter testing using old CFL:
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl
Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/
TV Factory reset codes listing:
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809Comment
-
Comment
-
Re: rectification in smps
In a linear power supply, the transformer is fed from the incoming power supply (AC). In a switching power supply, the AC is rectified to DC, then it is turned back into AC with a much higher frequency, and that goes into the transformer. That way, a smaller transformer can be used.Comment
-
Re: rectification in smps
Transformers dont mind having pulsed Direct Current flowing through their windings, It is only important that the voltage averages zero to avoid magnetic saturation.
This applies mainly to single ended Flyback and Forward designs.Comment
-
Re: rectification in smps
Ashroyer05, you're creating allot of threads on the theory of how a SMPS works.
I don't mind but maybe these links can give you a more thorough understanding than simply shooting out questions as they pop up?
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1238
http://www.learnabout-electronics.org/PSU/psu30.php
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/327
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switche...y_of_operation"The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."Comment
-
-
Re: rectification in smps
Hansson, i post because people give answers and don't check back or they give answers like my past instructor who was an engineer and couldnt comprehend my simplistic questions. I have already read most of the links you sent me (thanks by the way) but they all lack the answer im looking for.Comment
-
Re: rectification in smps
Single-ended = only one switching element (transistor) is used
Flyback = simplest(?) form of isolated switching PSU - the transformer is actually a coupled inductor.Khron's Cave - Electronics - Audio - Teardowns - Mods - Repairs - Projects - Music - Rants - ShenanigansComment
-
Re: rectification in smps
Hansson, i post because people give answers and don't check back or they give answers like my past instructor who was an engineer and couldnt comprehend my simplistic questions. I have already read most of the links you sent me (thanks by the way) but they all lack the answer im looking for.Comment
-
Re: rectification in smps
Marius, I just read back through the comments here and noticed them. I will read them and thank you for the info.Comment
-
Re: rectification in smps
and more post here:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...717#post425717
I think he is skipping the basic electronics if you have to ask about the grounds.
You have to understand the basic first instead of keep creating lots of threads.Never stop learning
Basic LCD TV and Monitor troubleshooting guides.
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...956#post305956
Voltage Regulator (LDO) testing:
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...999#post300999
Inverter testing using old CFL:
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthr...er+testing+cfl
Tear down pictures : Hit the ">" Show Albums and stories" on the left side
http://s807.photobucket.com/user/budm/library/
TV Factory reset codes listing:
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24809Comment
-
Re: rectification in smps
Can I try?
I think you are asking WHY do we do it rather than HOW does it work? If so then putting it simply, you get 45 - 60Hz from your wall outlet. (Depending on which country you live in.)
The lower the frequency you switch at, the larger the transformer needs to be.
So, if you want smaller component size, less weight etc, you switch at higher frequency.
To do this, you firstly have to rectify your 50Hz (Here in UK) and smooth it giving you DC, this then allows you switch it very rapidly allowing for smaller transformers.
I hope that helps WHY we have SMPS.Comment
-
Re: rectification in smps
Its mainly this power supply that's confusing me. I've worked on a few but this one is like a city. All the transformers confuse me. Say i needed 50dc output and 12dc and the typical standby of 3.3 or 5. Does each transformer supply each of the voltages? I took electronics but i grew up in a mechanics home so yes i have a lot of basics to learn or relearn in electronics but im willing. In college my professor had a hard time explaining things to me as well As he understands electronics to the nth degree and its something i came into blindly. I have learned a lot here though and hope to be able to help others one day.Comment
Related Topics
Collapse
-
I have this Huntkey HK340-72FP PC SMPS where I am facing a strange problem where the SMPS shuts down when the load on any of its 12v output rails goes above 2 amps while the rating of each 12v rail is above 10amps capable.
I have checked the following:
1. All output caps are OK, and all output rails read correct voltages at no load
2. All output diodes are OK
3. NTC is ok
4. Hi voltage cap on input correctly reads 150uF on LCR meter per the spec, also the bridge rectifier is OK
5. No short in main switching MOSFET
6. All other components... -
by momakaFor today's thread, I have a KingWin ABT-650MM ATX PSU. Official web page with the PSU specs is still up and can be found here:
http://www.rmac.kingwin.com/products.../abt_650MM.asp
I just can't help it when I see a broken / for parts PSU on eBay that's listed for cheap and looks at least somewhat interesting. Well, OK, I won't lie – on the outside, this PSU looks anything but interesting. It's a plain gray box with colorful “spaghetti cables”.
What mostly drew me into buying it is its 2x PCI-E power connectors... -
by BriesmithI have a blown smps and I am looking for some reassurance as to the amount of diagnosis I have to do. It blew the instant I plugged it in not under any load.
As you can see from the attached pix, the damage is located around the main or bulk capacitor (since removed for testing) and the resistor array/network that drives it (the bunch of SMD components to the left of the YAMAHA YC775 AMPS logo). The burn mark on the frame clearly shows the pins of the capacitor. And, for the avoidance of doubt, there is no way the board could have contacted the frame, it was correctly mounted on... -
by ohrenHello!
I'm looking at an original Xbox PSU: Foxlink ftps-0002 rev. B. The 12 V output is too low, and the 5 V output is too (?) high. Unfortunately I don't have an oscilloscope but only a DMM for diagnosis.
Measured voltages with no load:
After rectifier diodes
12V: 6.17 V
5V: 5.67 V
Secondary transformer pins AC measurement (really don't know if this says anything)
12V: 2-2.5 V
5V: 1.04 V
I also have another (working) Xbox psu from Delta. The same measures there, in order, being: 10.79,... -
by mikey5791Hi all,
Got this local made DC power supply (12/14V) given free as the transformer has melted. There is no marking or indication to identify what type or rating of transformer used.
Fyi,. I had a busted autogate mainboard with transformer with marking 13-0-13 . Is this the 13v dc type transformer?
My questions are
1. How do i test to see if the transformer is in good working condition?
2. Can this transformer (marking 13-0-13) be used to replace the melted transformer on the DC power supply?
Hope you guys understand what i was asking. My intention is... - Loading...
- No more items.
Comment