Any more info on counterfeit Nichicons?

[japlytic]

Found this recently:
http://www.nichicon.com/english/seihin/index.htm

ALERTS......Customers Beware
Counterfeit Nichicon Products

To all Nichicon customers,

Recently it has been reported that counterfeit Nichicon capacitor products are turning up in the market. These counterfeit products are not produced by nor guaranteed by Nichicon. They are of inferior quality and could cause end product failure as well as possible safety hazards.
In order to protect your company, do not use counterfeit parts. Only use genuine Nichicon products purchased from an AUTHORIZED Nichicon distributor or Nichicon sales office.
If you have any concerns as to the authenticity of any Nichicon product please contact your local Nichicon sales office for support.

Any more information about counterfeit Nichicon capacitors?

[yanz]

It doesn't say anything about what product is counterfeited. And, saying "Only use genuine Nichicon products purchased from an AUTHORIZED Nichicon distributor or Nichicon sales office." doesn't help me at all. I never bought caps from authorized anything!

I think i've seen a counterfeited nichicon VZ or VX. It really need a sixth sense to avoid those fake product j/k

BTW i've seen the information months ago on nichi's page but lack of details just disappointed me that i laughed at it.

Sorry japlytic but thanks, it has a great potential to be discussed here.

[linuxguru]

It would help if they explained how to tell a counterfeit from a genuine - there's no way to buy only from their authorized distributor(s) in many parts of the world - the distances and the mark-ups are too high.

In any event, the only counterfeit Nichicons I've seen had very poor finish and lettering - very easy to identify. IMHO, some Panasonic, Rubycon and NCC fakes are much harder to identify. It doesn't help that Panasonic has several undocumented series made in Malaysia and by Samxon in China, and that NCC probably has some series made under contract by Samyoung - which are allegedly of poorer quality.

[willawake]

It would help if they explained how to tell a counterfeit from a genuine

problem is that it would assist counterfeiters to make their products to look more real.

what they really need to do is to make the products difficult to fake. For instance on the sleeve they could print nichicon very small and repeating all over the sleeve in the backgound (similar to what banks do on financial certificates or whatever)

they could also do something with the bags of 200 or so caps or the reels. putting holgram stickers etc on the bags or having an online database of the serial numbers of bags sold so companies can register their bags and see if the serial number is correct or it has been duplicated.

of course only the first point would directly help us small buyers.

the thing is that when a product is being made in several licensed factories, there is a possibility to lose control so you have off-spec product leaving the factory at the back door instead of being destroyed. you might also have personnel in the factory doing their own run of cheap caps using the sleeves, bungs etc in stock and even using off spec raw materials which should have been destroyed. maybe even the supplier of the sleeves etc loses some product out the back door.

so there can be several types of "counterfeit" products. not only the idea of some small factory making bad copies

the component brokers have a big problem with trying to obtain non-counterfeit product and when they do obtain fakes or off-spec product what happens to it? if they dont get a refund do they just lose their money or does the product get sold to another broker who does not mind dealing with fakes. or do they pass it on to the buyer as the real thing and later say "we did not know!" There are some brokers who do hold their reputation as most important but for others who knows.......

as small buyers we are not going to be doing business with an authorized Nichicon distributor or Nichicon sales office. least we can do however is to do business with a supplier who probably is.

[japlytic]

Originally Posted by willawake

the thing is that when a product is being made in several licensed factories, there is a possibility to lose control so you have off-spec product leaving the factory at the back door instead of being destroyed. you might also have personnel in the factory doing their own run of cheap caps using the sleeves, bungs etc in stock and even using off spec raw materials which should have been destroyed. maybe even the supplier of the sleeves etc loses some product out the back door.

There is a case of a manufacturer producing products for another company which had its relationship ended - like in the Hecmma Group manufacturing batteries for Kyocera - http://www.batteriesdigest.com/count..._batteries.htm
Another case is the hijacking of a vehicle carrying off-spec components for destruction, with the hijackers later passing them off as the genuine product.
I have never heard this, the manufacturer who produces components for another company label components having better specifications (such as a regular capacitor being labelled as a low-ESR component) .

[yanz]

Another one by NCC: http://www.chemi-con.com/index.php

July 05, 2006

Caveate Emptor

“Buyer Beware”



“Buyer Beware”



To all of our Customers:



Recently, we have seen a substantial increase in the number of incidents of counterfeit Chemi-Con capacitor products in the marketplace.



Please protect yourself: only purchase Chemi-Con capacitor products from officially "FRANCHISED" Chemi-Con Distributors and Representative WorldWide!!!

have they read my thread about chemy tmz?

[yanz]

BTW, good analysis, Will

But if i being a Nichicon guy, i will still choose to include the detail/visibility of my product in every datasheet/pdf document. so the public/consumer will have a knowledge how to chose nichicon product right.

If only Nichi give example of what the fake product could look like (bad writing, sleeve/jacket colour, bung (that i thing all the jee, fuhjyyu, gsc, and teapo share the same type bung (they're really not creative)), etc..).

While it will also give a guide for the counterfeiter, it will make them think twice before attempting to do their evil things. They should make it close to real or no at all. Why? Because they will be dealing with consumer that - now - have the ability/knowledge to deal with the counterfeited product and can easily avoid them.

So, really, those idiot counterfeiter should made it right at the first time (making it closer to real ones). The only chance for them all this time is maybe because of those uninformed consumer too.

That will make the cost of making one counterfeit product arise, could be even more then what nichicon paid (but only in term of the visibility).

Unfortunately the ordinary people like joe sixpack are immune to whatever information the manufacturer put on their website, simply because they never touch the internet and they are not a heavy electronic hobyist. They will say ok to whatever the shop give them. I was one of them .

Yea but another scenerio of counterfeiting you have mentioned are just really...scarry. (Can't find a proper word for it).

And, like what linuxguru have mentioned, hidding something from consumer will only shoot their own foot. What if i make a fake panasonic FN or FR caps that look like a FJ? it already happen with chemicon TMZ (it has exatcly a chemicon logo but i never heard about TMZ series).

Ignorance is a bliss..

[at77]

regarding counterfeit detection: a couple things to look for MAY include:

- capacitor dimensions: get the datasheet for whatever nichicon series you're looking at and check if the dimensions match up given the value and voltage. could be a good indicator.
- print quality: of the knock offs that i've seen, their print quality is sub-par. factory nichicons look pretty slick and clean, well printed (not slightly foggy lettering that looks like it's from a mediocre scan).

If either of those are the case, you're likely looking at fakes. That's not the only way they could vary, but those could be good indicators.

A good way to avoid it is purchasing from a reputable source such as newark, digikey, mouser, or avnet (or such other larger distributors) OR a local shop that you trust.

Cheers,
AT

[PeteS in CA]

Not sure what you think is BS, and this thread is something like 6 years old. But things like vent scoring patterns, bungs, sleeve color, print quality, font, and label information layout can all be tell-tales. I do agree that buying from non-authorized sources is riskier. A large corporation can get a distie to send samples to examine, but an individual or small business might not be so fortunate.

[Uranium-235]

for some reason i've seen revival of oooold threads lately. stop people

[Shocker]

I have an idea to make them harder to fake - print holographic labels!!!

[Topcat]

^
They'd look cool, that's for sure!

[ben7]

This looks fishy! The 'HD(M)' is too big! Also, the size is wrong, the 1500uF 16v HD are marked as 12.5x20mm :P:

[c_hegge]

^
The date codes are also wrong. Should be H09xx, not C09xx. Also, '09 made Nich HD caps wouldn't have sleeves.

[ben7]

Originally Posted by c_hegge

^
The date codes are also wrong. Should be H09xx, not C09xx. Also, '09 made Nich HD caps wouldn't have sleeves.

I just realized, but a quick search on ebay shows loads of dodgy looking caps

[kc8adu]

most of the caps in that "allpartspipe" store look counterfiet.
like the panasonic fc that are black and gold with fuzzy print.
or the eb with flat bung.

[ben7]

Originally Posted by kc8adu

most of the caps in that "allpartspipe" store look counterfiet.
like the panasonic fc that are black and gold with fuzzy print.
or the eb with flat bung.

Yeah, and 'Rubycon's with an X shaped vent! xD

[gunnish]

These got to be fake right?

Cheap bung

FW 105 degrees is unheard of

Fw usually is not brown, but gold.

[ben7]

Originally Posted by gunnish

These got to be fake right?

Cheap bung

FW 105 degrees is unheard of

Fw usually is not brown, but gold.

Yep they are fake. Wrong bung and wrong color scheme.
105 degrees celsius is a common temperature rating.

[LLLlllou]

Originally Posted by ben7

Yep they are fake. Wrong bung and wrong color scheme.
105 degrees celsius is a common temperature rating.

He meant FW series is an 85 degree series, not 105.

... and yes, they are VERY fake.