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    Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

    Ok, I was given this Mac Pro (early 2009) 4,1 a week or so ago.... Single socket Bloomfield quad core @ 2.66GHz and 8gb RAM.





    I found a dual socket CPU card that is coming with a pair of CPU's and 32gb RAM for it (hasn't arrived yet)....and want to play around with this thing a little....but here the first problem. It originally came with 10.11 'El Capitan', which isn't bootable...OS long gone. I got Mint 20.3 running great on it and windows as well. Under Windows, the only thing I couldn't seem to get working is the bluetooth (worked fine on Linux).....but I'd like to put OSX back on it when I'm done playing with it and dual boot it....but first things first.... Where can I get the install media and how can I make it bootable either with USB or a dual-layer DVD (I don't care which) without a working mac? The bootable media needs to be created from a Windows system. I do have a DMG for 10.11 that I downloaded as an 'upgrade' for a Macbook I redid some time back.....but I had the original install disks for that one, which made it easy. That system is long gone now.... I'm not even sure if this 10.11 media I have will even work....the DMG is about ~6gb.

    Everything I've tried that 'the google' suggested has not worked...
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    #2
    Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

    whatya going to sell it for? Curious about your prices
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      #3
      Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

      Originally posted by Uranium-235 View Post
      whatya going to sell it for? Curious about your prices
      Ebay prices for the way this will be trimmed out is 500~600ish realistically. Seen some silly BIN's for a grand...
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        #4
        Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

        Definitely my absolute favorite computer case out there. I experimented with building a PC in one a long time ago. Does this Mac have the Internet Recovery feature?

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          #5
          Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

          Originally posted by shovenose View Post
          Definitely my absolute favorite computer case out there. I experimented with building a PC in one a long time ago.
          I too have always liked these cases. I have a useless old single G5 in the same case, I have contemplated doing an ATX build in it. It would require crazy amounts of modification.....but in the words of our resident Swede, "the one that says it can't be done should never interrupt the one that's doing it!"...I just havent had that kind of spare time.

          Originally posted by shovenose View Post
          Does this Mac have the Internet Recovery feature?
          I do not believe this one supports that.
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            #6
            Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

            Original installers can be downloaded directly from Apple's website for 10.10, 10.11 and 10.12.
            10.13-12 need to be downloaded from App Store according to Apple.
            https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211683

            There are third-party tools such as gibMacOS that can lookup various versions and download from Apple's servers directly as well.

            However I have never found the various tricks to create a bootable drive from Windows to be 100% reliable, so I'd always recommend doing it from macOS.
            OpenBoardView — https://github.com/OpenBoardView/OpenBoardView

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              #7
              Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

              try TransMac on windows https://www.acutesystems.com/scrtm.htm
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                #8
                Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

                Originally posted by SMDFlea View Post
                I have a bootleg of that...may have to try it. It was good for reading Mac media but never tried making bootable media from it. I do have a PPC G5 here with 10.5.8 on it...I didn't think it'd work being a PPC and so much older.... May be worth a try I guess.
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                  #9
                  Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

                  Just a little update.... I conquered the OS hurdle....I had a macbook here I forgot I had that has Sierra on it....so made the install media using the terminal commands, it worked.

                  Now this is where it gets fun....I was reading some stuff that the early 2009 4,1 (which I have) can take the firmware for the mid-2010 5,1 if you're crafty enough to make it install...which I was. This gives a big laundry list of things not supported in 4,1; to include RAM speed @ 1333MHz versus only 1066MHz (a must for westmere support) and will now be able to run High Sierra. I never could get it to post with a westmere even after the firmware using the single socket card....but I'll diddle with that more when the dual one gets here.
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                    #10
                    Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

                    Being it's now a 5,1 by firmware (hardware-wise the 4,1 and 5,1 are identical), the 'High Sierra' test was also successful. The final conquest for this hardware-wise is the dual CPU card.....and then dual booting it.

                    This post was created from it running 10.13.6 on Waterfox. I stuck a 120gb SSD in it. It's pretty snappy all things considered.

                    I had to do a bit of reading on this to make this mod happen....and I've come to the conclusion that the hardcore Mac users addicted to the Apple-flavored Kool-Aid are in a strange little world of their own....it seems many really think Apple devices are powered by unicorns & fairy dust..... There was a lot of information on this mod.....but far more chaff to wade through before getting to the wheat!!
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                      #11
                      Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

                      Dual CPU card was a success. It came with a pair of quadcore 2.26GHz Nehalem CPU's and 32gb RAM. This now clears the way for the 3.46GHz x5690's...the fun to come; they have to be delidded.....but I did practice on a junk 5500-series xeon, it's not that bad (I'll get back to this in detail in a later post). The 5600-series Xeons will also allow the RAM to run @ 1333MHz instead of being doomed to 1066.

                      ...but so far so good!!

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                        #12
                        Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

                        The Westmere upgrade was a complete success....and a learning experience. First thing is, the CPU's have to be delidded; something I've never done....so I researched the best way to do it....and my ohh my, what a hodgepodge of hackery! Everything from bench vises, hammers & chisels, blow torches or lighters....silly delidding 'tools' which was a more mellow version of the bench vise....unreal!!

                        After adding up all the above, and how the lid attaches to the Westmere core; soldered....I tried my own way....maybe a little more of a scientific approached, but still a little crude.... Even though these CPU's aren't all that valuable anymore (I paid $55 shipped for a pair), this still made me nervous at the potential of destroying a good CPU....but here we go!

                        I used a fresh razor blade and carefully cut the sealer around the perimeter of the die. I then carefully slipped a blade under each edge of the IHS (integrated heat spreader), and then used the trusty 'helping hands' on each blade, like so:



                        This applied a slight pressure/pull on the die from the IHS. The metal tray under it I'm sure you can figure out.....as I heated the IHS with my SMT hot air station. It didn't take long....and POP! The tension of the blades against the CPU was more than the softened solder could hold, and the CPU dropped to the metal catch tray and the IHS remained suspended above by the 'helping hands'.





                        Again, using a fresh blade, I shaved off the remaining sealer glue and the solder from the die.



                        I then took a dremel with a polishing wheel in it with some jewelers rouge and polished out the die. The final product looks better than the pic below....I worked them to a mirror shine.

                        Polished in rough:



                        Now for the install.... Old removed... It had its original 2.26GHz quad core Nehalems.



                        My freshly delidded CPU's installed with the weird apple bracket & fresh AS-5.



                        Shiny copper sink....



                        Original CPU....which answered the question of how you could solder the silicon die to the IHS....well there's a copper plane on the back of the die....



                        ...and now for the acid test!! Seemed like forever from hte time I pressed power until I heard the 'chime'....but it was on time and booted very quick!! This is a good sign!



                        ....and here we are!!





                        Side view:



                        The old CPU's cleaned off; good view of their copper backings that have not been soldered.



                        The only thing questionable was the RAM still running @ 1066 instead of 1333.... The RAM installed is PC3-12800 ECC, which should run @ 1333MHz....maybe it's the arrangement of the DIMM's; 2 instead of 4 in each bank.....but overall, it's a snappy system!

                        This can run Mojave if I get a GPU that supports 'Metal' and disable something with terminal at the bootloader (I forgot exactly what it was)....but that's for another day.....but so far, every experiment with this has been a success!!
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                          #13
                          Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

                          Have you tried DIMMs in 1/3/5/7 instead of 1/2/5/6? You might have it set up in single-channel mode instead of dual-channel mode.
                          Don't buy those $10 PSU "specials". They fail, and they have taken whole computers with them.

                          My computer doubles as a space heater.

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                          Asus Q550LF (Old main laptop, 2014-2022) - Decommissioned and stripped due to a myriad of problems, the main battery bloating being the final nail in the coffin.


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                            #14
                            Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

                            Originally posted by TechGeek View Post
                            Have you tried DIMMs in 1/3/5/7 instead of 1/2/5/6? You might have it set up in single-channel mode instead of dual-channel mode.
                            Mac's don't have a traditional 'bios' menu like a PC....so it's not a timings setting.... I'll play musical memory slots with it tomorrow.
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                              #15
                              Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

                              Just a finishing touch for this one....a couple Apple version HD5770 GPU's.... I ran a pair mainly for multi monitor support. This system will most likely end up in my work room.





                              Mint21 runs fabulous on this, and honestly I like it better than OSX....and unlike OSX, which getting this one past high sierra would require a GPU that supports 'metal', Mint doesn't care. Fruck apple and their forced obsolescence!! Windows runs fine on this as well (tested it with S2K12 R2 and Win10)....but as of late for systems that dont require any windows-specific programs, I've taken a liking to linux. I just never warmed up to 10.
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                                #16
                                Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

                                Turned out nice! MacOS in any flavor is unusable trash IMO. Stick Windows on there! Should be easy enough.

                                Still a plenty powerful system for typical usage. As long as power is cheap

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                                  #17
                                  Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

                                  Just another little test...This system is the test bed for the newly released Linux Mint 21.1 (it was already running 20.3 then bumped up to 21.0). I also have a drive with Server 2016 on it for this system. I am yet to figure out how to get this to dual boot; either with grub editing in Linux or BCD editing in Windows.... When booting from one of the OS's, the OS on the other drive isn't seen at boot, but once the OS loads, the other drive is seen & accessible....I believe it to be a quirk with the Apple bootloader, I am not running OSX at all (no bootcamp)....if I want it to boot the other OS, I have to physically swap out the drive. Whichever drive is in bay '1' is the one it will boot from....

                                  As for Mint 21.1, all I really noticed was some new 'sounds' and some minor GUI changes....different mouse pointer, 'hand' when over a URL, some icon changes, and by default 'computer' & 'home' icons are no longer on the desktop. From 20.x to 21, I noticed absolutely nothing different except slightly higher load averages....which seemed to be fixed in 21.1.
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                                    #18
                                    Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

                                    Ok, I finally got this thing to dual boot; albeit in a roundabout way....but without any drive swapping or removal....and for some reason that stopped working anyway, no matter how the drives were arranged, it defaulted to Mint....both OS's had updates, so not sure which update and/or which OS did it.... I never could get GRUB in Linux or a BCD editor in Windows to create a functional boot menu, it would never show the menu and just boot Mint... I prefer Mint anyway for browsing & general use stuff, but once in a while I need windows...and the cure was this: Press and hold the 'alt' (or option key if an apple keyboard) and that will bring up the EFI boot menu and show each drive. You can then select the drive to boot from and life is good....but here's where this threw a big wrench in the gears.... The 'alt / option' key is no big secret....but apparently this machine is very fickle about the keyboard in which this can be done. For example, my benchtop default keyboard; a logitech wireless KB/MS combo, the 'alt' hold DOES NOT WORK, holding the 'alt' key will not activate the EFI menu! No idea why not.....but a wireless Microsoft KB/MS combo works just fine... This has been throwing me off since I started on this thing....uhggg. WTF....but atleast I can dual boot this thing now.
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                                      #19
                                      Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

                                      This thing finally got deployed and put back to use.....would have been done sooner, but I just haven't had a lot of time for toys.

                                      Under my workroom bench.



                                      The boot menu; keystroke at the chime to get this or it defaults to Linux, which is what I use most the time anyway....displayed on Per's favorite monitor, the Acer AL2423W!



                                      Server 2016 Standard is the version of Windows it's running.... It's the eval version....but it is still on its original install, I still have 6 re-arms left @ 180 days a crack.... Not too worried about buying a license for it.



                                      ....and Mint 21.1....



                                      The AIO that was here is going out to the garage bench to replace the one that I sold about 4 years ago....

                                      The final specs of this system are:

                                      MacPro 4,1 modded to 5,1
                                      2x Xeon X5690 CPU's @ 3.46GHz hexcores (12 cores total)
                                      64gb PC3-10600R
                                      2x Apple Radeon HD5750's
                                      2x 120gb SSD's, one with Windows the other with Linux
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                                        #20
                                        Re: Attention Mac Junkies - Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) build

                                        Finished this little deployment with a second monitor. Apple's forced obsolescence completely defeated and this freight train will steam on!! reds:



                                        ...and yes, I found a working Bluetooth driver for Windows....but I haven't booted it into Windows since it's been installed at this location.
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