Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

[i4004]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

>- Teapo just keeps on selling them as they are.
That's a huge difference.

and what are they like?
i have teapos on mobo from 2001 and they're perfectly fine.
if that's not "good" performance, what is?
also, are you suggesting teapo didn't got its act together?
proof?
something recent with bad teapos...

from my perspective it's exaclty the same: ie will nichicon swap the caps that were leaking? come on....
acknowledging the problem doesn't really magically fix the badcaps, you know...
from a human moral perspective it's good to admit a mistake, but given that these companies are not really offering recapping to all affected customers(the logistics to do this would be fuckin enormous), i wouldn't apply it to corporate world at all...
they made a mistake...if they admit it or not doesn't change anything for majority of customers that are out of warranty period...and mostly (bad) caps go bad after warranty expires...

>If all you can get is bad quality that sux

i find it surprising that this site didn't teach you what bad caps look like.
they leak. i'm talking about cheaper caps that don't leak.
because there indeed is mid grade quality.
those are caps that are not top quality, but they won't leak after few years like crap caps.
now, what proof do you have this is not so?
you've noticed i said i'm putting these caps and they're not going bad...right?
do you have different experience with those caps?
if not, you can't deny mid grade exists.

also, i think you're blowing this grossly out of proprtion: i would say that majority of mfr-ed caps are ok caps...those that won't leak. sure you have a bad series and bad mfrs(that will leak), but i would say that overall much, much more good caps are produced than bad caps, at this time.
(well, we should probably exclude whole of china..hehe...but they're mostly putting their rusbbish in their toys and alike...)
it's just that badcaps get more publicity.
which offcourse is not a bad thing, but it kinda makes you discard the fact that most mfrs are doing good job.

oh yeah, Jamaica became independent in 1962.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Bad JPce caps on Enermax, glued FETs in primar and secondar blow up - what a crap?! You don't have real example - i've think so...I don't know whose experience made that list od 2 level, but obviously they put back a fact that strong branders do buy best A clas caps wheter they are JPce, Teapo, Licon, Vent...formula is a rather simple...they have 2 or 3 clases: for masses and for the gentlemen...so, Teapo is NOT and will never be the SAME on PC P&C (eg.) and on EPoX...i was very clear best wishes

MiG,
You came in here asking other peoples opinions and in response to their answers you tell them they are full of shit.

The things I have told you are correct and can be confirmed by way of thousands of examples spread across the internet.
(Including the KNOWN issue with Enermax and glue.)

It seems most of the members here identified you as too lost to bother with trying to help just from your first post. The bulk of your information is just wrong.

If you are not willing to learn from other people's experience then don't ask for their opinions.

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

>- Teapo just keeps on selling them as they are.
That's a huge difference.

and what are they like?
i have teapos on mobo from 2001 and they're perfectly fine.

I have a tray full of bloated Teapo with date codes from 1998 thru 2003 that are all bloated. They came out of P3 mobo, P4 mobo, and PSU's.
-
With Nichicon I can look at the date code and know if it will likely be a problem.

With Teapo I can't, and no one else can either.
That's why Teapo is a bad brand.

~~~ I didn't bother with the rest of your ramblings.

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Oh, and i4004,

oh yeah, Jamaica became independent in 1962.

Not really. In 1962 they came up with a Constitution that allows them to elect their own Prime Minister however the Head of State is still the King or Queen of England and that makes them part of the UK.

.

[MiG]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Komsija, nisam video do sada da si iz HR, jes' da se nesto kao narodi nismo slagali, mada je za to politika kriva...i opet se bijemo bez veze po takmicenjima...bolje je bilo u staroj dobroj SFRJ

Srdacan pozdrav iz ZEMUN-a

Sve najbolje!!!

>- Teapo just keeps on selling them as they are.
That's a huge difference.

and what are they like?
i have teapos on mobo from 2001 and they're perfectly fine.
if that's not "good" performance, what is?
also, are you suggesting teapo didn't got its act together?
proof?
something recent with bad teapos...

from my perspective it's exaclty the same: ie will nichicon swap the caps that were leaking? come on....
acknowledging the problem doesn't really magically fix the badcaps, you know...
from a human moral perspective it's good to admit a mistake, but given that these companies are not really offering recapping to all affected customers(the logistics to do this would be fuckin enormous), i wouldn't apply it to corporate world at all...
they made a mistake...if they admit it or not doesn't change anything for majority of customers that are out of warranty period...and mostly (bad) caps go bad after warranty expires...

>If all you can get is bad quality that sux

i find it surprising that this site didn't teach you what bad caps look like.
they leak. i'm talking about cheaper caps that don't leak.
because there indeed is mid grade quality.
those are caps that are not top quality, but they won't leak after few years like crap caps.
now, what proof do you have this is not so?
you've noticed i said i'm putting these caps and they're not going bad...right?
do you have different experience with those caps?
if not, you can't deny mid grade exists.

also, i think you're blowing this grossly out of proprtion: i would say that majority of mfr-ed caps are ok caps...those that won't leak. sure you have a bad series and bad mfrs(that will leak), but i would say that overall much, much more good caps are produced than bad caps, at this time.
(well, we should probably exclude whole of china..hehe...but they're mostly putting their rusbbish in their toys and alike...)
it's just that badcaps get more publicity.
which offcourse is not a bad thing, but it kinda makes you discard the fact that most mfrs are doing good job.

oh yeah, Jamaica became independent in 1962.

[Wizard]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

I can chime in and these caps others have mentioned are bad. There are no such as mid range capacitors and this is actually "general purpose" EVEN were good but are not suitable for stressful situations and this website is focused on low ESR and high ripple current that last long time on order of 5 years or more, not just one or 2.

Btw, this I edited list of capacitors you posed has garbage capacitors and are not suitable in PSU or let alone in the vital filtering like for CPU v-core. These doesn't take heat well and many of them even heat is under control had bad electrolyte formulations that made them outgas and burst it's vent.

Oh yes, I had too many low quality capacitors dry up and look intact but no good at all.

JPcon (jPCE-tur/s)
VENT/Licon, Teapo
Jamicon, G-luxon
Fuhjyyu

Cheers, Wizard

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

BCN je neki dana malo mjesto na Internet taj je točnost obavijest.

JA namjeravati za napraviti što Ja mogu ponašati se prema komu držati BCN onuda.

Te imati loš obavijest.

Ukoliko ištanje to imati osoban razgovor onda iskoristiti PM poslužitelj ili elektronička pošta.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Thank you for your support Wizard.
I think it's important to keep bad information off BCN.
Too many people look here for guidance to allow that.
.

[MiG]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Jesi ti Slovenac??? Ne znam slovenacki ali mi se cini da nesto ne "stimal kak treba" kod tvog pisanija cheers

P.S. Ne mislis valjda da sam rookie pa piskaram bezveze...imate jos mnogo toga nauciti, ima i ovde propusta...ja sma vam predocio neke...npr za TEAPO i za JPce koje vi pogresno zovete PCE (postoji kvacica ispod, a to sam video omasku kod vaseg gurua sajta...). Dakle, nije tacno da nema klasiranja ima 3 klase a u okviru i lose klase najbolji delovi i formule idu najboljima. Bas bih voloe da vidim original ne fake sliku makar jednog Enera sa JPce-tur i JPce-tul kondenzatorima...to bi bio izazov, da se ne ponavljam. U zdravlje!

BCN je neki dana malo mjesto na Internet taj je točnost obavijest.

JA namjeravati za napraviti što Ja mogu ponašati se prema komu držati BCN onuda.

Te imati loš obavijest.

Ukoliko ištanje to imati osoban razgovor onda iskoristiti PM poslužitelj ili elektronička pošta.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

I said if you want to have private messages use the PM service.

I told you that because not using English here is considered rude.

.

[MiG]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Ma sta mi naprica

I said if you want to have private messages use the PM service.

I told you that because not using English here is considered rude.

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Jesi ti Slovenac??? Ne znam slovenacki ali mi se cini da nesto ne "stimal kak treba" kod tvog pisanija cheers

P.S. Ne mislis valjda da sam rookie pa piskaram bezveze...imate jos mnogo toga nauciti, ima i ovde propusta...ja sma vam predocio neke...npr za TEAPO i za JPce koje vi pogresno zovete PCE (postoji kvacica ispod, a to sam video omasku kod vaseg gurua sajta...). Dakle, nije tacno da nema klasiranja ima 3 klase a u okviru i lose klase najbolji delovi i formule idu najboljima. Bas bih voloe da vidim original ne fake sliku makar jednog Enera sa JPce-tur i JPce-tul kondenzatorima...to bi bio izazov, da se ne ponavljam. U zdravlje!

I'll repeat what I said one more time just for you.

There is no mid-range - WHEN BUYING REPLACEMENTS.
The brand is either trusted or not.

The fact that you and i4004 can't get trusted brands for replacements where you live does not magically make the untrusted brands trust worthy.

If there is such a huge void of quality caps where you live perhaps you and/or i4004 should consider becoming capacitor dealers.

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Here is what that glue you aren't worried about can do:
http://img84.*************/my.php?image=img6072aox2.jpg
It's an Enermax Liberty

[i4004]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

>I have a tray full of bloated Teapo with date codes from 1998 thru 2003 that are all bloated. They came out of P3 mobo, P4 mobo, and PSU's.

allright, but do you have bad teapos with datecodes from last few years?
if you do, then yeah, i lost that argument...

>Not really. In 1962 they came up with a Constitution that allows them to elect their own Prime Minister however the Head of State is still the King or Queen of England and that makes them part of the UK.

you think that these days kings and queens run states?
or governments?
that queen is their queen too doesn't mean they're not independant, you know...
heck, uk government is pretty independant of queen...

>If there is such a huge void of quality caps where you live perhaps you and/or i4004 should consider becoming capacitor dealers.

why, we don't have mobo repair industry here.
can't realy rely on few hobbysts doing it....
also, there's really no electronics industry in general, so...no real interest in high quality lytics...

btw. why did you mention elna?
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...elna#post57140
perhaps that was counterfeit elna...

>~~~ I didn't bother with the rest of your ramblings.

you're aware of how extremely rude this is, right?
and not the first time you're doing it.
i wonder when did i do the same to you to provoke such answer....
oh, hold on...i know: never..
it's just that you insult for no good reason.
it's a pitty you're so pompous you can't listen...if you could you would truly be a great person.
if you're not reading, fine, but don't say it in such an ugly way. don't say it at all...
i'm not hunting down your posts i didn't read and then writinh something like
"i'm ignoring your crap". makes no sense.

i just came to say i agree with kikkoman's comment, minus the price point.
if you were living here you would also not be buying caps overseas because price would climb so much... prices of caps indeed don't vary much between top and lower grades, but shipping does.
so do me a favour and stop being stubborn and acknowledge other people's position.
i acknowledged yours when i said i would be buying nothing but top brands if i could get them as easilly as you...

you need to imagine this:
many countries don't have rubycon(or such) importers.
now, the choice is to put what you can get, or throw the mobo(or any other device, for that matter) to dumpster?
what would you do?

oh..hold on, who am i writing this to?
silly me...

anyway, your fundamentalism wouldn't get you far here.
you wouldn't be replacing caps at all, you would go bust in few months...


to answer wizard:
>There are no such as mid range capacitors and this is actually "general purpose" EVEN were good but are not suitable for stressful situations and this website is focused on low ESR and high ripple current that last long time on order of 5 years or more, not just one or 2.

this assumes 2 things:
1-you were actually putting caps kikkoman mentioned for few years and then saw they couldn't last(because you need few years to establish if they're good or not)
2- you were puting gp caps instead of low esr ones so you know they're not suitable...

is this so?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

>I have a tray full of bloated Teapo with date codes from 1998 thru 2003 that are all bloated. They came out of P3 mobo, P4 mobo, and PSU's.

allright, but do you have bad teapos with datecodes from last few years?
if you do, then yeah, i lost that argument...

You already lost that argument for a different reason.
I haven't seen A SINGLE Teopo over 5mm used on a motherboard since i845 Chipset which went out of production around ~2004-ish.
As the motherboard companies finally stopped using Teapo there aren't any out there to fail.

that queen is their queen too doesn't mean they're not independant, you know...
heck, uk government is pretty independant of queen...

Independent or not is irrelevant. -> They are still part of the UK.
That's all I said.

btw. why did you mention elna?
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...elna#post57140
perhaps that was counterfeit elna...

I mentioned Elna because they are good caps.
I can't answer why i4004 changes out perfectly good caps in an addmittedly old and over worked VCR other than a randon failure or perhaps you were replacing things at random until it worked again.
a.k.a. -> Easter Egging

> I didn't bother with the rest of your ramblings.
If you think that's rude then don't write a book every post.
PARTICULARLY as so few of your 'ideas' have any credibility.

.

[Wizard]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

to answer wizard:
>There are no such as mid range capacitors and this is actually "general purpose" EVEN were good but are not suitable for stressful situations and this website is focused on low ESR and high ripple current that last long time on order of 5 years or more, not just one or 2.

this assumes 2 things:
1-you were actually putting caps kikkoman mentioned for few years and then saw they couldn't last(because you need few years to establish if they're good or not)
2- you were puting gp caps instead of low esr ones so you know they're not suitable...

No to both after I found out. This is major reason I had to order capacitors from Pope after few requests became apparent that supplier WILL NOT change for quality low ESR 105C caps instead of yublight junk. Yes, right in Canada! Border fee that FedEx/UPS etc is large and there is reasons where it is big hassle just for money processing stuff (especially for taxman).

I was saying these "midrange" aren't suitable PERIOD in SPECIFIC areas where high current ripple and need for low ESR and ultra ESR. Reason I included general purpose (GP) was even these were made BY GOOD brands like nichicon is still NOT SUITABLE and is actually GOOD "GP" for their PURPOSES compared to garbage GP capacitors. The many stores that sells capacitors to public are GP and many are garbage just like radio shack/the source.

GP capacitors DO have their place in other uses but it is NOT for power filtering period where there is high frequencies & high current involved. 60Hz 50Hz, audio circuit, video signal stuff, simple low speed circuits (under 50Khz like audio stuff) stuff and cool running are perfectly suitable for GP stuff (small values .22uF to 100uF) stuff.

And I have seen the results and does not NEED to state this, just I know from experience. Data sheets on capacitors DO NOT LIE and field/shop repairs I do NOT LIE.

And, guys, LAST THING you want is call backs and this hurts your reputation because of wrong capacitors used. And can happen to you like this: your former customers saying bad things that theirs was fixed by somebody xxx and going to buy another or divert their stuff to fix to somebody yyy in the future. And you DO have chance to get your leg up over others who are using garbage stuff. Like Home Holmes had said many times: "Do job/things/work RIGHT". And need use of test tools and tools to do your job well. Can't do my work without ESR or scope, my DMM. I NEED THEM.

Oh, nature doesn't allow middle of the road stuff, very decisive on what survives and ones does not survive.

Snorts!

Cheers, Wizard

[kc8adu]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

why should we even consider changing the list?
it happens in real time via the experience of those of us who do this for a living.
we use whats proven.
my clients loose too much from downtime to even think of trying unproven parts.
as for non english posts thats really annoying.
just take that to pm if you must.
it adds nothing but confusion to the thread.

[i4004]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

>I mentioned Elna because they are good caps.
I can't answer why i4004 changes out perfectly good caps in an addmittedly old and over worked VCR other than a randon failure or perhaps you were replacing things at random until it worked again.

gosh, so easy for you to attack(for no good reason), so hard when you need to read and comprehend.
those are the pics of z mech pana vcr(few years old): i clearly stated i changed cap when it started acting up, and that solved it, offcourse(it was bluging cap). i say next one will probably go too as it's also elna and it seems it's starting to bulge.
first ask when something is not clear to you, then see if you need to launch attack.
again, very, very rude.

>If you think that's rude then don't write a book every post.

true...i exert too much effort on you...you always know best anyway.

>PARTICULARLY as so few of your 'ideas' have any credibility.

meh, my idea.... what was my idea here?
you're aware that people (on this forum) were putting gp caps and reporting good results where previoulsy low esr caps were?
you're aware what kikkoman said, and what i supported.
so no, i didn't give any ideas here..i just said stuff should be fixed even if top caps are not available. you disagree?

i didn't really say list should be changed, and i didn't say i agree with mig's list.....
only thing i said was that sometimes high quality caps are hard to get, and in that case you put what you have. sure, i would encourage anyone to sample few locally available brands, put them to torture tests(jack up the temprature etc.) and see what does best...then use that...
offcourse, if high q. caps are available, don't bother with lesser quality brands, buy rubycon or alike....

but be pragmatic; don't say "i don't have top caps, can't fix it", but "i'll put caps i can find locally and we'll see how it goes".
so far it goes well...no problems with caps i've put in...have them in my gear too...


i don't quite see which part of this is so hard to understand.
let me ask this: you have an old car, right?
are you putting new original spare parts in it?
why not?
is is perhaps because they're not available?
and then you put what you can find?
maybe?

realise ordering abroad jacks up the price, and prolongs waiting time to (usually) more than 10 days, and you'll figure it out. and ordering ton of caps is not viable as one cannot say how much work there will be.

and that's all.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

gosh, so easy for you to attack(for no good reason), so hard when you need to read and comprehend.

meh, my idea.... what was my idea here?
you're aware that people (on this forum) were putting gp caps and reporting good results where previoulsy low esr caps were?

In one place:
You argue the experiences of 100's perhaps 1000's of techs that have been through bucket loads of bad Teapo saying they should be called reliable.

In another place:
You argue that Elna should be called bad based on one isolated example.

- Those arguments proven wrong by COUNTLESS examples to the contrary and that's why I say neither has any credibility.
- Further, your reasoning for the one example contradicts your reasoning for the other.
- You do that sort of thing all the time [in your LONG WINDED difficult to follow or respond to fashion] and then other people have to come in behind you and fix your misguidance to keep the information on BCN accurate and therefore actually helpful to current and future readers.
- i4004 clean-up GETS OLD.

That said, you do occasionally come up with valuable information. Your thread about the over-volts problem with UPS units was great. First I'd heard of that problem and that you were on the right track. It was verifiable through other sources. In fact I have referenced that thread on other sites including EE.

~~~~~~

Now let me show the flaw in your thinking by way of the old car analogy you came up with.

Lets say I have an engine and there are two exhaust manifolds that fit it.
PN: ZZ is known to last.
PN: AA is known to crack in half within a year or two.

ZZ goes on the good list.
AA goes on the bad list.

Whether the source of the parts is new or used is irrelevant.
ZZ is still good and AA is still bad.

Now, if I need a manifold and all I can get my hands on is a AA then I am forced to use AA.

-> BUT, the fact that I am forced to use it does NOT make it a candidate for the Good List.

You and MiG seem to think it does and that is not a sensible conclusion.
.

[EGuevarae]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Ma sta mi naprica

What is this nonsense?
1.- Now we (yes, WE, as I being almost a newbie still consider myself a part of this great community) are a multilingual group?
My native is Spanish and I had not used/written a single Spanish word that I remember, so please keep this civilized and use only English on public posts. PMs are another story ....

2.- There's a list of good KNOWN caps based on experience, and a list of KNOWN bad caps also based on experience. And that experience is from many tech/hobbyists all over the place, not a list imposed by a single person. I know that if you can't get your hands on Rubycons (for example) then you have to look after the best you can find. In my case, when I'm in that situation (mostly because of time concerns more than availability) I look for another one in the good knowns list. The idea of midrange is good, in the case you can't get the top of the line, but personally, I would not try to fix something with midrange parts, especially where heat is a concern like in PSUs or LCD interiors especially when the PSU is internal and not an external brick. Again, the idea is good, but the approach is wrong. Why don't you ask for senior members, or more experienced users of the forum to propose and back their proposals instead to trying to force a new list in the group?

3.- This is the "Identifying bad caps ....etc" section. If you are going to start firing at each other, why you don't do it in the general discussion area, and if TopCat or another moderator sees it belongs to other area, simply it just get moved to the right place?

C'mon guys..... fourty posts including this and we are nowhere yet.