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Old 03-10-2020, 02:21 PM   #1
SolomonMan
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Default Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

Guys,
I swore off Plasma TVs after my last Samsung Plasma failure $$...but this one found its way home by way of a Nordic Track CR2050 my wife was wanting on Craigslist...it was also real close to my home (I live in the sticks).

Anyways I was told they were watching it one day and it clicked/popped off. They wrapped it in blankets and put it in there nice and Clean Empty garage in the hopes of fixing it and ended up buying something bigger.

Got it home plugged it in...no remote but it seems to have a touch pad front on the right side.

Anyways touched the touch area on front and there is sound (music) when turning on.

Started testing fuses found the Y Main board (I believe) with a fuse blown.
Voltages test at VS 202 and VA 55.

Put in a fuse and once fuse is in the PSU started cycling no startup music. So I remove the Buffer Boards...Still PSU cycles with the Y Main installed - No Music. Unhooked the Ymain and the PSU stops cycling and does the sound start up thing....So I am thinking the failure is in the YMain?...

No visible signs of failure except the solder point on some of Mosfets seem very dull on the YMain...bad solder joints?

One Buffer board on the back... the IC area looks leaky/grungy but not horrible. (like the other Samsung I did).

I have include some pics...Not had a chance to test Mosfets/Diode/Caps etc...This TV seems to be built much better then the previous Samsung I had.

Any common failure points on this TV?

The last Samsung the panel had a failure...hope this is not the case on this one.

Thanks
Chris
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg 20200310_091832.jpg (948.7 KB, 13 views)

Last edited by SolomonMan; 03-10-2020 at 02:23 PM..
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Old 03-13-2020, 08:30 PM   #2
ajshoe
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

what are the exact startup symptoms ? red led light ? clicking noises ? screen flash ? try forcing the set on

Last edited by ajshoe; 03-13-2020 at 08:32 PM..
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Old 03-14-2020, 07:00 AM   #3
SolomonMan
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

ajshoe,
The first time when I powered it up the red light on the front was on and the sound tone on startup was present.

I discovered the YMain Fuse Blown. Swapped the fuse out from another board (Another Plasma YMain from another set - same fuse size/type).

Upon startup now with the new fuse the PSU is clicking. I assume this is a relay clicking on and off. The front red light follows now the PSU clicking.

I have VS of 202 volts at the YMain and XMain Connectors.
The VA is 55 Volts on YMain. The VC is 15 volts on XMain.

If I remove the fuse (the one I replaced) on YMain the red light on front and sound tone is heard again. The red light stays on if you mess with the touch pad to turn the TV off.

I am guessing the issue is in the YMain.

I have done a once over visually and this YMain board does not have any jump out at me burn issues or Bulging Caps.

I have a ESR meter and I have started this morning to test the Caps...Any other suggestions are greatly appreciated as I am very open to learning as I am definetly a Novice.

Thanks
Chris
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Old 03-14-2020, 08:24 AM   #4
ajshoe
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

put fuse back in - turn on set and leave it clicking for awhile. does screen flash on momentarily ? sounds like the C102 on main board issue
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Old 03-14-2020, 09:58 AM   #5
SolomonMan
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

ajshoe,
I put everything back as it was Initially. (Assembled).

I notice the clicking has a pattern...6 on-off clicks and then a little pause...then 6 on-off clicks and a little pause....On-off clicks are actually separate clicks.

I do not see any screen lighting/flashing...

On the "C102 on the Main Board" you mentioned....Are you referring to a Capacitor 102 on the YMAIN or some other board?

I got out my magnifier glass/light arm and looked over the boards again...still not seeing anything unusual...maybe the "leave it clicking will reveal something".

One thing I noticed is when the clicking is on going I see no voltage at the fuse...If I open the fuse I get 202 volts... the VA is trying to climb but does not seem to get above 12-15 volts when clicking is ongoing.

How long should I leave it clicking for...been going for about 5-6 minutes?

Thanks
Chris
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Old 03-14-2020, 10:11 AM   #6
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

Search c102 main board on this site. Many posts on this design error. Capacitor C102 SMD is on back of main board. 47 UF 10V cap. Replace it with low esr tantalum 47 UF 10 or 16 volt cap - plenty of room on back of board to solder it on. I would also check relays solder joints on back of power supply board. Re-solder them.
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Old 03-15-2020, 09:32 AM   #7
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

Ajshoe,
Went through the back of the logic board with my lighted mounted magnifying lamp and I do not see a C102...I do see a lot of what appears to be resin or something (resembling spilled dryed coke a cola) on the back of the Main Board.

I did a cleaning of the back of the board to make sure something isn't being shorted out by the "mess".

Any idea on why the YMain fuse has no Voltage if its installed?

Is there a "boot" up procedure on this set meaning something like Voltage is here then here...etc?

Thanks for all the help,
Chris
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Old 03-15-2020, 10:46 AM   #8
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

You won't have a problem on the main board if without the Y-sus fuse you here the tv turn on with chime. You have a bad Y-sus or bad buffer boards. Disconnect the buffer boards from the Ysus (you can leave the panel ribbons connected to the buffer board) and then try the tv, does it turn on? do you have Vs & Va?
Then unplug the TV and reconnect just the lower buffer board and see if the tv turns on (you might get the lower half of the screen).

Last edited by R_J; 03-15-2020 at 10:50 AM..
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Old 03-15-2020, 10:52 AM   #9
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

pics of main board front and back
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Old 03-15-2020, 11:17 AM   #10
SolomonMan
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

R_J,
Any idea why there is no Voltage on the VS Line when the fuse is installed or where to look first?

I was starting with Caps and then going to the larger Mosfets/Diodes...On the YMain...

I have disconnected the Y Buffers and it still caused the PSU to Cycle/relay.

Probably should do the continuity Test on the YBuffers? From Memory its a Continuity Test scenario....

The Voltages on the YMain...What does the VS and VA lines represent?

Again Thanks for the help,
Chris
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Old 03-15-2020, 11:23 AM   #11
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

If u do what r_j said - u can isolate the problem of what is bad. If u can post pic of back of main bd. Just curious if your set has C102 cap on it. Thanks
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Old 03-15-2020, 11:24 AM   #12
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

Caps are not the answer for everything, The reason there is no VS is there is likely a short on the Y-sus board. Check ALL the mosfets. there are likely a few that are shorted. Power supplies have protection so when there is too much of a load they shut down. If you removed the buffers and you still have a shutdown problem, why bother checking them at this time?
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Old 03-15-2020, 11:29 AM   #13
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

I realize his set is prob Ysus or buffers. I'm just curious if this set has C102 on back of main board
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Old 03-15-2020, 11:48 AM   #14
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajshoe View Post
I realize his set is prob Ysus or buffers. I'm just curious if this set has C102 on back of main board
Go to shopjimmy and look at the mainboard pictures for this model and see if you can find it.
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Old 03-15-2020, 04:09 PM   #15
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

Quote:
Originally Posted by R_J View Post
Go to shopjimmy and look at the mainboard pictures for this model and see if you can find it.
Images are included....I had them already...so I could see things better when looking for C102.

Thanks
Chris
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Old 03-15-2020, 07:54 PM   #16
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

Guys,
Keep in mind I am a Novice here...So I need some verification on things please;

I started measuring the MOSFETS;

In circuit Testing in Diode Mode of My Klein Tools MM700 DMM.

The Red Squares are Bad and Green are Good in my included image.

A) STW20NK50Z - Bank 1- Red - Pin 2 and 3 of the N-Channel Mosfet (1) are shorted - Regardless of which lead of my DMM is used.

B) STW20NK50Z - Bank 5 - Green - Pin 2 and 3 are not shorted and the internal Diode is working based on DMM Probes.

C) IRFP4332 - Bank 2 - Green - Pins 2 and 3 are not shorted and the Diode is working based on DMM Probes choosen. N Channel Mosfet (4).

IGBTs? - Assume Testing like a Mosfet - Saw online should not test in circuit?

D) RJH3047 - Bank 3 - Red - Silicon N-Channel IGBT High Speed Power Switching - Pins 2 and 3 are shorted - Diode on Emitter and Collector seems bad.

E) RJH3047 - Bank 4 - Red - Silicon N-Channel IGBT High Speed Power Switching - Pins 2 and 3 are shorted - Diode on Emitter and Collector seems bad.

F)RJP3047/STTH40P035 - Red/Green? - Bank 6- (Not RJH3047 previously but RJP3047) - Another IGBT (RJP3047) but I can not find much on this other than a Large Manual (sales)... Is it like a RJH3047...If so...To test the internal diode - Pin 3 Emitter (Red Lead) Pin 2 (Black Lead) each of the RJP3047 Give me a .414Volts. If I reverse the Leads I get O-L on both of the RJP3047 in the Bank.

The STTH40P035 - ULTRAFAST RECTIFIER - Bank 6 again - A-K-A - Diode The Anode Pins (1 and 3) and the Cathode (2). When in diode mode positive probe on 1 or 3 and black on 2 the reading is .331. If I reverse the probes reading is 2.71 V instead of O-L. (Going Bad?)

G) RJP3047 - Red? - Bank 7 - Again Not sure 100% how to test the IGBT. But if I test it like a RJH3047 - To test the internal diode - Pin 3 Emitter (Red Lead) Pin 2 (Black Lead) each of the RJP3047 Give me a 1.020V. If I reverse the Leads I get O-L on all three RJP3047 in the Bank.

H) STTH40P035 - Green - Bank 8 - The STTH40P035 - ULTRAFAST RECTIFIER - A-K-A - Diode The Anode Pins (1 and 3) and the Cathode (2). When in diode mode positive probe on 1 or 3 and black on 2 the reading is .329. If I reverse the probes reading is O-L.

Datasheets Below;

STW20NK50Z - Datasheet
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16O_...ew?usp=sharing

IRFP 4332 - Datasheet
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i8Y...ew?usp=sharing

RJH3047 - Datasheet
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fUz...ew?usp=sharing

RJP3047 - Datasheet
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kxe...ew?usp=sharing

STH40P03 - Datasheet
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HXu...ew?usp=sharing

Guys, what are your thoughts on the YMain Board specifically on the RJH/RJP3047 IGBTs?

Suggestions on how to test either IGBT would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Chris
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Old 03-15-2020, 09:50 PM   #17
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

If your a newbie - recommend purchasing another Ysus or send it in for repair. You have a bunch of removal and soldering - there not that easy to get to - have to remove heatsinks to get to them. You pic in earlier post of back of main is not whole board - think C102 is in area where pic is cut off. think C102 is on bottom of pic.

Last edited by ajshoe; 03-15-2020 at 09:51 PM..
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Old 03-16-2020, 07:46 AM   #18
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajshoe View Post
If your a newbie - recommend purchasing another Ysus or send it in for repair. You have a bunch of removal and soldering - there not that easy to get to - have to remove heatsinks to get to them. You pic in earlier post of back of main is not whole board - think C102 is in area where pic is cut off. think C102 is on bottom of pic.
I have included the additional pics I took previously...I have a slew of them...I usually take multiple scans so I can get good look at things...so easy enough to post.

"Newbie" is a bit of a harsh term, after looking at the board for more than a few hours, I gave myself but definetly not a Tech. My educational background (Masters in Science/Bachelors in Computer Science) gives me a ok base and dad was (Biological) in electronics when I was very young (40 years back). My step dad was a Air Force Tech 21 years in service and 9 years private plus he ran a repair business...but I was in my 30's when my mom and him married....I was long out of the house and had a kid of my own.

So I definetly have the electronics "bug" but 5 kids and a wife, did I mention a Hobby Farm, keep me busy.

Anyways the soldering job on this I did not fear overly, I have the tools and I have a couple similar test boards to play with best approaches to the soldering job...my "newbie" label comes from terminology a lot of times...Short, Resistance,Diode Mode vs Ohm...I am getting those down now which is a big step in the right direction. Troubleshooting a board and where to start at times and trying to trace a circuit can be problematic on some boards. SMD components...I have a hot air station but not much experience with it...So new in fact I got the Solder Paste last week to allow me to play with two other small projects.

The (new) IGBT terminology and looking at the board and not seeing any apparent visual failures and having such a large amount of the board (50%) being bad/questionable questions my capabilities (in my mind)...am I missing something like "testing these items in circuit (IGBT MOSFETS/MOSFETS) is not a good idea".

So Looking over my options...We are looking at $30-40 in parts for this thing if the components identified are indeed all bad. Not to mention most of the sourcing for some of these will be ebay and waiting forever (China).

I have located a brand new old stock board ($$) and multiple used boards (6) for $50. Ten Dollars and the amount of time on this one seems like a no brainer to just buy a board. Only negative...Am I buying another bad board....Shop Jimmy option is out of stock. The economics on this is a interesting thing as I bought my last 55 inch 4K LG for sub $200...but I think the board option is still doable...I tested the Y-Buffers quick and the lack of real visual damage on any board says this is a good bet.

For knowledge side of things I would like to know if the IGBT Mosfets (RJH3047/RJP3047) are indeed bad...How to Test them...Any Ideas?

Thanks
Chris
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Old 03-16-2020, 08:04 AM   #19
ajshoe
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

that first pic- bottom of board is not clear enough to see labels. I would buy new USED board thru EBAY - if problem you can return or get funds back.
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Old 03-16-2020, 09:29 PM   #20
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Default Re: Samsung PN58B650S1FXZA Plasma

after examining this main board - not the C102 issue. They re-designed the main bd - hopefully fixed this issue. Have you ordered a new Ysus bd
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