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    Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

    In February 2005, a heatsink bundled with an Intel Pentium 4 3.4 GHz (LGA775) is about 40mm high with a copper core.
    Later, in April 2007, a Core 2 Duo E6400 2.13 GHz has a 30mm high heatsink with a copper core.
    Now, in September 2008, a Core 2 Duo E8500 3.17 GHz has a 14mm high heatsink with no copper core .

    The difference in the heatsink for the two Core Duo CPUs really makes you ask questions .

    Adding to the problem is the heatsink compound already on the heatsink would not be adequate - it should be in a separate dispenser. Not to mention, the heatsink mounting pins are somewhat flimsy.
    My first choice in quality Japanese electrolytics is Nippon Chemi-Con, which has been in business since 1931... the quality of electronics is dependent on the quality of the electrolytics.

    #2
    Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

    Yeah, I also took notice about what you are talking about. My Pentium 4 530J came with a 40mm heatsink, but my brother just purchased a Pentium Dual Core E2180 CPU for his PC and it's only 14mm high. Maybe newer CPUs have better cooling is why they become shorter?
    Don't find love, let love find you. That's why its called falling in love, because you don't force yourself to fall, you just fall. - Anonymous

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      #3
      Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

      Newer CPU's make less heat in the first place.
      - Pentium 4 3.4 GHz (LGA775) ~ 84 watts
      - E6400 and E8500 are both ~ 65 watts
      None of those actually need a copper core.
      A decent sized aluminum sink should be fine unless the case has like no air flow.
      .
      Mann-Made Global Warming.
      - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

      -
      Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

      - Dr Seuss
      -
      You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
      -

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        #4
        Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes



        Only hope it doesn't accidentally sit itself on a quad core. * ouch that burns *
        Rubycon Rubycon Rubycon

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          #5
          Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

          I recently acquired a P4 641 (SL9KF) Cedar Mill. This is a late introduction, and runs on the 63w technology. I have it cooled with a stock Core 2 Duo cooler that I didn't use with my E8400 processor. This is a 24 hour server and runs the cpu around 30C.

          What I see getting hotter are the NB and SB chips. The heat sinks on these continue to grow as they get hotter with each generation. I opted for 140mm down-draft cpu coolers because the large wing span covers the NB and SB heatsinks, and the processor VRM area.

          These are such a contrast to a 130w Prescott chip I own, but do not have in service. That one requires an efficient sink and much air flow.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

            Faster => Hotter,, no longer applies.
            You just have to look-up what you are running.

            Many of the multi-core chips run cooler than a Prescott.
            Even some Xeons.
            Tulsa Xeon . 3.00 GHz . 7120M . 2 cores . 800 FSB . 4 MB cache . 95w

            This is why the whole "heat pipe" marketing garbage cracks me up.
            It's mostly hype.
            90% of the people that buy them don't need more than good case cooling and an aluminum sink.
            If the reason you go that route is for quiet that's one thing but if you are getting it because you think faster always means you need more cooling then you may have bought into a bogus ad campaign.

            [Same-same with SATA 3.0Gb/s - The physical hardware in hard drives isn't capable of filling the bandwidth for 1.5GB/s yet and probably won't be for several years. Going to 3.0Gb/s has no real world advantage. But they sure charge more for the feature, don't they?.]

            Aluminum sinks are used (as original) on socket 604 Xeons up to around 90-100 watts.
            At that level most of the stock copper sinks are for 1U and 2U server cases that don't have good air flow and that have size limitations on the coolers.

            It's harder to pull heat out of the CPU when the cooling medium is hot air. Copper helps with that on chips that would otherwise be fine with aluminum sinks. They are moving the job of achieving good overall heat transfer from using cooler air to using a better heat transfer material. The other alternative would be to use a larger aluminum heatsink. - But those won't easily fit in tight cases.

            .
            Mann-Made Global Warming.
            - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

            -
            Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

            - Dr Seuss
            -
            You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
            -

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

              I went heatpipe for a quieter running comp I am running a single core P4 3.0 Ghz about 4 years old.

              The stock Intel variable speed heatsink always revved up when playing games (under moderate load). It was very annoying. I gave my video card the same treatment a quieter heatsink fan. Along with the recapped Antec SP 500W the PC really runs silent.

              The noisiest component is the WD hard drive .

              Here is a funny story when I was working on a customers HP with an AMD processor. The same one with the old ATX PSU. I noticed the the CPU fan was revving erratically when the PC was under no load just sitting at the Vista desktop.

              I checked in speed fan the CPU core temps were rising the fan would rev up and bring them down.

              So I pull off the CPU heatsink and notice the cheap crappy white compund improperly applied from the factory. It's bad enough that they used this crap but not applying it properly was the last straw.

              I remove compound with some alcohol and put Arctic Silver 5 on it spreading it evenly with a razor blade. Not a peep out of the fan since.

              I guess thats why Intel uses those crappy preapplied heatsink sheets because the danger of improper application from the end user or the factory who doesn't know what they are doing is just too great. It may also be because those cheap sheets are cheaper than the paste too .

              As for why are they shrinking the heatsinks lets not forget that aluminum is expensive and if the manufacturer can get away with less due to more efficient processors they will.
              Last edited by Krankshaft; 12-01-2008, 10:35 AM.
              Elements of the past and the future combining to make something not quite as good as either.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

                Copper is far more expensive than Aluminum. As of checking:
                Copper $1.61/lb
                Aluminum $0.82/lb
                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                -
                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                - Dr Seuss
                -
                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                -

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

                  I know copper prices are insane I bought a 5 foot length type L 3/4" diameter cost me 17 bucks.

                  Hopefully these prices will settle down a bit.

                  No wonder junkies are stealing plumbing from houses.
                  Elements of the past and the future combining to make something not quite as good as either.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

                    Maybe smaller, but are they still as damn noisy? I had to replace the stock HSF within a few days when I got my Pentium-D system as is was SOOOO NOISY you can hardly hear yourself think!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

                      Wasn't your plugged into 3 pin connector where you should be using 4 pin connector on the mainboard? Not doing so, the fan will go full speed or setting not set in the bios.

                      Cheers, Wizard

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

                        It was in the 4pin header, and even running at ~50% of full speed it was easily one of the noisiest fans [in so far as the air noise as well as the vibration from the motor] I've ever heard.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

                          Small heatsinks often have high flow fans to compensate for the smaller surface area.
                          Same-same with heatsinks having a fewer thick fins vice many thin fins.

                          A heatsink is just a heat exchanger.
                          To make one exchange more heat:
                          - Use a material that transfers heat better.
                          - Increase surface area.
                          - Increase flow.
                          [N/A talking about air coolers but...]
                          - using a better heat transfer medium ('fluid' - air is the fliud in this case).

                          Incidentally,
                          When you are using an actual liquid, water is like one of the worst choices. It's used in industrial environments because it's plentiful and cheap, not because it's good at the job.

                          .
                          Mann-Made Global Warming.
                          - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                          -
                          Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                          - Dr Seuss
                          -
                          You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                          -

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

                            "*water* is like one of worst choice"?!

                            Explain?

                            I'm aware of the water's high specific heat capacity.

                            Cheers, Wizard

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

                              Originally posted by PCBONEZ
                              Small heatsinks often have high flow fans to compensate for the smaller surface area.
                              Same-same with heatsinks having a fewer thick fins vice many thin fins.

                              A heatsink is just a heat exchanger.
                              To make one exchange more heat:
                              - Use a material that transfers heat better.
                              - Increase surface area.
                              - Increase flow.
                              [N/A talking about air coolers but...]
                              - using a better heat transfer medium ('fluid' - air is the fliud in this case).

                              Incidentally,
                              When you are using an actual liquid, water is like one of the worst choices. It's used in industrial environments because it's plentiful and cheap, not because it's good at the job.

                              .
                              like this screamer?
                              sounds like a dental drill!
                              Attached Files

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

                                Originally posted by Wizard
                                "*water* is like one of worst choice"?!

                                Explain?

                                I'm aware of the water's high specific heat capacity.

                                Cheers, Wizard
                                Heat Capacity only tells you how much heat a substance can hold.
                                Doesn't give you much about how much it can transfer without a butt-ton of other factors and a bunch of math.

                                Effective use of water to transfer heat requires a pressurized system with pressure controls based on temperature.


                                At the temps and pressure we are talking about in a CPU cooler water has a property referred to as "Laminar Flow". Water is bad about this because of it's high surface tension. Basically water will resist mixing with water of a different density. In a pipe (or flow channel) there is a thin layer of water that clings to the inner surfaces. That layer doesn't move with the flow. It acts as an insulator between the flowing water in the center of the channel and the heat transfer surface. Poor heat transfer.

                                Water just at the boiling point is a different story. There what occurs then is called Sub-Nucleate Boiling. Bubbles of steam form on the heat transfer surfaces and get carried away with the flow where they collapse back into water moving the heat they contain into the flow. In that mode water is an excellent heat transfer fluid. [Ever see the little bubbles form and rise to the top in a pot of water just before it actually boils? That is the beginning of Sub-Nucleate Boiling. A pot at a rolling boil is still into the Sub-Nucleate Boiling range. - This is the region most reactors operate in at high power.]

                                At the Sub-Nucleate Boiling point if you add a couple degrees or lower pressure a bit and you end up with Nucleate Boiling. At this point the surface bubbles blend together and form a steam blanket on the inside of the heat transfer surface. Again, an insulator. Very little heat gets transferred to the water flowing in the channel. Very poor heat transfer. [This is what happens in a covered pot that's boiling when you remove the top and it 'boils over'. Lowing the pressure (removing the cover) allows the liquid at the bottom to instantly flash to steam and the expansion blows the rest of the water right out of the pot. - If you could look inside the pot without removing the cover you might see a layer of steam across the entire bottom of the pot and the rest of the water is 'floating' on top of a 'steam blanket' in the bottom of the pot.]

                                .
                                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                                -
                                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                                - Dr Seuss
                                -
                                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                -

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

                                  It's true about motherboard temps. They're what you should focus on. It's no good having your CPU at 25 centigrade if the cost is motherboard 45 centigrade, where with stock you have 45:35 which is perfect. Often these aftermarket coolers may be designed to exploit reviewers who overlook this critical flaw. Lets never forget as soon as industry has your money, their next job is to fuck you completely, and make you pay more more more.

                                  I don't know much about water. I've always assumed liquid metal cooling is the way forward or without pipes, immersive cooling, if the day comes when it's really necessary, over using stock solutions.
                                  Rubycon Rubycon Rubycon

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                                    #18
                                    Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

                                    The marketing is deceptive.

                                    Coolers should be marketed based on the max watts of the CPU they are good for and not the GHz.

                                    Two cpu's with same GHz can have huge differences in heat produced.

                                    I don't think the marketing is -intentionally- deceptive.
                                    I think it's -stupidly- deceptive.
                                    Back when coolers only fit one kind of CPU all they needed to say was of what GHz (or MHz) it was good to. That all changed when coolers became applicable to various CPU types. But the marketing method/terminology is still doing things the old way.

                                    .
                                    Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                                    -
                                    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                                    - Dr Seuss
                                    -
                                    You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                    -

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

                                      Originally posted by PCBONEZ

                                      I don't think the marketing is -intentionally- deceptive.
                                      I think it's -stupidly- deceptive.
                                      I agree ask the average consumer what a watt is and most will give you the deer stuck in headlights look .

                                      Voltage * Current = Watts it's not that hard .

                                      Ask them how many GHZ their CPU is though and you will get alot more responses.
                                      Elements of the past and the future combining to make something not quite as good as either.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Re: Shrinking Intel LGA775 heatsink sizes

                                        I have an extensive database of the various heatsinks tested by www.frostytech.com and other labs. The frosty test methodology is a two-tiered approach, tailored to specific heat production wattage. 85w and 150w, IIRC. All their testing is uniform, so one can compare performance data from many units across several years.

                                        The vertical side draft coolers are still the most efficient, but several large wingspan down drafters are coming up close. The SI128-SE is one. TI is getting ready to release the AXP-140 which is even bigger. It will be on the size of the Zipang coolers I use. These are nearly silent with 140mm fans running at slow speeds, and low TDP processors.

                                        SilentPCReview is the place to get educated on silent systems. I have a number of Antec Solo cases, and one P182, all of which isolate the disks systems. I'm not wild about the P182, but it is larger. The front cover arrangement absolutely blows, but the rest is well done.

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