Can I ask a mains electric meter problem here?

[fejlong]

Hi everyone,
This is a forum I like very much. I come here often to find useful information and almost every time I get what I come for. Members are very nice and information is nowhere else to be found in such short times.

Recently I had problems with my mains electricity meter, Can I ask my question about it here, I can't find any related topics. If I am not aloud, please delete this or move to the corresponding place.

Thank you!

[sam_sam_sam]

Re: Can I ask a mains electric meter problem here?

What is your problem with electric meter please show a picture of it so we can see what type it is

It might be in the wrong place but we will see if this is the case

[fejlong]

Re: Can I ask a mains electric meter problem here?

Hey,
Thanks for your quick reply.

It's kind of a wierd story, if you want to skip the drama just skip to the end two paragraphs. We rent this house from May last year(2019) and we didn't move in just in July. We picked this especially because of the existing solar panels that are installed on the roof.

So there is a separate main grid meter and one that measures unused electricity generated from the solar panels that is pushed into the grid. The main meter should not register this as positive but either negative or just nothing. But in fact after a month we realised that we consumed 371kWh without living in the house. Made us very suspicious and we started to record everything in a spreadsheet including mains grid meter, solar meter, what appliance was on, and even what was off. We started to turn off every trip on the fuse box panel except the solar system. The mains grid meter kept registering during sunny days while the solar system was on, but not when it was off. There is a swithc for it in the fuse box, also there is an inverter in loft/attic.

Contacted the energy company regarding the issue and we where almost told that we are some dupes and this consumption is normal for a family house of this size. Finally after multiple calls and emails, especially when they saw the spreadsheet they realised that there is something wrong for real with the meter or the setup.

This specific energy company is like a retailer and has no engineer or electrician staff so they had to send someone from the real provider SSE here in England. This took one month, and when the engineer arrived and saw the setup said he cannot do anything as there is no fuse on the neutral side. Another month had to pass until some other engineer came in and installed a fuse(see white fuse on the left, live line black fuse on the right) on the neutral side of the supply. And another month until some other engineer to install a check meter, they wired this in series with the one being in place at that time(a so called legacy meter). So here, is where the confusing part starts for us, as unsure if this is correct way to mount two meters in series. Will both of them register as they should or they are getting influenced by each other's inner resistance?

After another month, this being in December, they took the legacy meter off, install a smart meter in its place, and the engineer forgot to remove the check meter that should have been there only for a one month period to check the legacy meter. We asked the engineer if he was to remove the check meter but he replied that he was not instructed to do so.

Now that the weather is getting sunny our solar system is not generating all the time(in sunny weather). Not generating especially when the panels are in direct sunshine, they do seem to work fine when it's overcast or early in the morning when the sun is indirect to the panels. Non functioning times the inverter displays "Protection shutdown SW" and switches onf and off every 5 seconds or so. Inverter manual saying "Protective shutdown of the software AC overvoltage, AC overcurrent, DC overvoltage Action: Not a fault, Grid-related shutdown, the grid connects again automatically."

Read somewhere that if two meters are connected they influence each other's readings and accuracy, but this was more than a decade ago and not sure if this was for AC or DC meters or in parallel or series connection.

Basically we just want to know if the solar inverter is unable to "push" electricity into the grid because the two meters( the new smart and the check meter) internal resistance adds up and making false reading for the inverter of the grid voltage. Could this be the cause that upsets the inverter? It's a Kaco Powador model 3002 INT

Thanks in advance

[CapLeaker]

Re: Can I ask a mains electric meter problem here?

is the software in the inverter configured properly?

[stj]

Re: Can I ask a mains electric meter problem here?

scamming clowns.
the neutral is not a fuse, it may be an isolator but looks more like a junction box.

the smart meter is bad news and will fuck you in the future when they change the metering method to "apparent power" which is a fraudulent scam.

and the breaker box wiring is terrible - even using old second-hand meter tails!

[sam_sam_sam]

Re: Can I ask a mains electric meter problem here?

Meter Set up

This might depend on how the current is being measured
If it is with a shut and wired in the wrong direction then might give some problems

If it is a Hall effect sensor the same might happen if it is measuring DC current if pointing in the wrong direction

Now if it is measuring AC current the direction will not make a difference this only holds true if it is a Hall effect sensor not for a shut it still will make a difference

I can not answer the question if two of the same type of meter very close to each other would give you trouble I do not know the answer to this question

[CapLeaker]

Re: Can I ask a mains electric meter problem here?

I’ve never seen solar panel metering system hooked up like that. I’ve got one smart meter outside that reads incoming and outgoing power, that’s it. I also only have one fuse right in the main panel. However there are dc fuses inside my inverter. Not sure what to tell you, since I am in a different country. At least I would get a second or maybe even a third opinion from a different trusted installers.

Since the software is shutting down the system, I definitely check the software configuration of the inverter, maybe even update it. I am updating mine every year. You also could call the manufacturer of the inverter and show them a picture and ask for suggestions.

[budm]

Re: Can I ask a mains electric meter problem here?

Did you also try contacting the people that install the solar system to your house?

[Trevtron]

Re: Can I ask a mains electric meter problem here?

I have installed a couple of PV systems myself and I would agree with @budm's advice - you'll be best getting an opinion from either the original supplier if they are still around or another company that specialises in PV installation.
I really do not think the meter/meters are to blame, as there is always resistance in the wires so any extra resistace in the meters won't make any difference. But I would worry that your new smart meter is counting your generated (injected) power as consumption. I was lucky when I bought my last house as it still had a disc meter that ran backwards when my panels were generating excess; in the summer we could have up to six weeks of net zero consumption. Then along came big bad EDP & swapped my meter for a so-called 'smart' meter, basically a digital one, unfortunately it counted my injected power as consumption and there is no buy-back deal available. So I just got around that by installing an Immersun (now extinct but there are plenty of others in the UK) which diverts any excess power to a load of your choice, in my case a hot water tank. But it also has a useful display that shows how much energy is going where so you can see at any time how much your panels are generating.
In your case I would definitely suspect the inverter has a fault, hopefully a s/w update will cure it.
I have a sick Solis inverter which 'expired' after a storm took out the power. It too looks like a s/w issue, it keeps reporting an earth fault (which there isn't as an identical one works away quite happily in the same installation) so now with a bit more time on my hands I might get that one going again.
Good luck, let us know how it goes. 370KwH/month must hurt for an empty house!