The Hall of Shame - Badcaps Photo Montage

[OniJon]

Bunch of Nichicon HM's from old HP D510S/845G. To my suprise, powersupply was full of HZ and alike, all good.

[TechGeek]

Is that computer an SFF style machine?

If so, not surprised. Those computers are a true test for capacitor thermal ratings.

[Heihachi_73]

Looks like H0301 on the datecode. No surprise since it's in the middle of the bad era for the Nichicon HN/HM series.

[RukyCon]

Some caps from a grab bag; a (brand new) Samxon GF 47uf 25v that is blown out the bottom. A Rubycon MFZ 680uf 4v cap that is bulging (tests at 230uf). and a Samxon cap with a heat shrink error (nothing electrically wrong with it).

[momaka]

The Ruby MFZ probably sat on the shelf too long without use, and they don't like that too much either (though nowhere near as sensitive as UCC KZG). I've also never seen MFZ in that size offering (680 uF @ 4V). Custom spec caps, I suppose?

As for the Samxon GF... meh, those are known garbage. Not surprised it failed.

The blue Samxon looks like GS series. Those are general purpose series... and also not very good, especially if there is any heat involved. Also, that sleeving error is very funny. I've seen caps over-sleeved or under-sleeved - even from the good Japanese brands, but nothing this bad, lol.

[ChaosLegionnaire]

yea me three! i find sleeving errors very funny too. since this isnt the vip room, all i can say is that under-sleeving reminds me of women wearing shirts that are too short , exposing their abdomen or someone walking around in public in various states of undress.

over-sleeving reminds of someone wearing a fat suit or wearing clothes that are too big or too baggy for them. in short, over-sleeving and under-sleeving make very poor fashion choices for a fashionable capacitor or if u want to have a capacitor that looks fashionable, aesthetics wise.

[momaka]

Originally Posted by ChaosLegionnaire

since this isnt the vip room...

Ah, that explains the g-rated analogies above, then.

Otherwise, I was expecting the jokes to be more about extra skin (or lack of) on certain... oh yeah, this isn't VIP/off-topic. NVM!

[Dannyx]

Cap bulged after sitting unused for a couple of months...

This is a constant-current load I got off Ali in kit form. I soldered it together myself and it works, but it just sat in a box on a shelf for a good 6 months now while I was planning to build a case for it, which I never really made much progress on I came across it the other day while I was looking for something else in the same box and noticed this, which struck me as odd. However, I think I remember someone saying something around here not that long ago about caps going out just by idling for long periods of time, so this could be it. Not sure if the position of the can itself plays a role in this - this board sat on its side, for the record. It wasn't exactly cool where it lived for the past months, but certainly not boiling hot or in direct sunlight either.....

[momaka]

Originally Posted by Dannyx

Cap bulged after sitting unused for a couple of months...

Yup.
Caps with unstable electrolyte tend to do that, especially shit caps from China.

Good Japanese caps can sit for a few years on the shelf without use and have no problems afterwards. Of course, if stored for more than "a few" years, their specs will slowly start to deteriorate (generally, they may need reforming to avoid high leakage current and possibly shorting out from that.) Nonetheless, I haven't had even 10+ year old new Japanese caps go bad on me in storage - at least not series that are known to be solid with minimal or no failures. Chemicon KY, Nichicon HE, and Panasonic FM are a few examples.

[momaka]

Remember this video card that I recapped a while back in 2014?
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37602

Well, I’ve been using it on-and-off as a test card and even semi-permanently in a few PCs.

Last week I pull it out of storage again (after maybe close to a year without use) to test another build and what do we have…

… a slightly domed Sanyo WF, 16V, 1500 uF cap. That can’t be good!

Let’s see what my ESR meter says:


Yeah, 2400 uF? That’s failed for sure. Seems to be high internal leakage, just like United Chemicon KZG likes to go.

Now, I will be honest that these Sanyo WF caps were salvaged from dead Xbox 360 motherboards, so they may or may not have seen a few high-temperature cycles from a reflow or two. But really, that shouldn’t matter, because I have Rubycon MCZ and Nichicon HN caps in the same capacity and size, salvaged from the same Xbox 360 motherboards, and none of those have gone bad on me.

Since the above EVGA GeForce 6200 card was one of my early recaps, I decided to pull another old recap of mine out of storage where I used the same Sanyo WF caps. It was on an Intel Maverick/Silverado motherboard for an HP DC7700 desktop tower. I previously used this board about 4-5 months ago to test the TDP capability of some heatsinks (by using a Pentium 4 -630 CPU on that board as the heat source "test dummy". )

So I grab that board and inspect it. Immediately, I notice almost the same thing:

… except on this one, the bulge on the Sanyo WF cap was much smaller. Nevertheless, I desoldered it to check it and this was what the cap meter said:

-bad again!

Since I used two more of these caps on that HP DC7700 board, I pulled those out too. One measured nearly the same thing as above, but without showing any signs of bulging or being domed:


The last one, though, showed this:

… 1700 uF, which is still technically “in spec” for a 1500 uF cap. But do I trust it? –Absolutely not.

As a comparison, shown below is the reading of a Rubycon MCZ, 16V, 1800 uF cap (the one and only left) original to that board (the rest of them bulged due to excessive heat, as it seems that board was in a case with bad ventilation, as there were scorch marks all over the board in the hot areas):
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1604735471

After finding all this, I check the rest of my stock (all of 3 caps, lol) of Sanyo WF, 16V, 1500 uF caps that I had salvaged from bad Xbox 360 motherboards (I guess these were rare on Xbox 360 motherboards… and maybe for a good reason!) Surely enough, most of them tested above 2000 uF, despite me actually reforming them at least once every year.

In addition to that, I also have an ECS motherboard that used to have a bunch of Sanyo WF 6.3V, 1800 uF caps. When a few of them bulged, I removed them all eventually. Some were still OK for a while. But when I last checked after the above incident, all were now bulged and showing high capacitance too - some well above 4000 uF! Unlike the 16V, 1500 uF units from the Xbox 360 motherboards, half of these weren’t in hot spots or abused in any way. They simply failed after roughly 10 years of life total.

So there you have it… Sanyo WF series = bad news.

Of course, that’s not to say that Sanyo (now Suncon) makes bad caps. Their WG and WX series are mostly OK. But if you have anything with WF series - recap it!

[PeteS in CA]

The WTF series? 10 years in use would be very decent life, but 10 years mostly on the shelf or in a box?

[TechGeek]

Add Sanyo WF to the bad caps list?

[momaka]

Originally Posted by PeteS in CA

The WTF series? 10 years in use would be very decent life...

Eh, I don't know about that. I think 10 years is not that great, whichever way you look at it. After all, the equivalent Rubycon, Nichicon, and Panasonic series that came from the same Xbox 360 motherboards have already lasted 15 years. Even most of the Chemicon KZJ 16V, 1500 uF caps have been doing OK-ish.
So I think 10 years is actually not good... unless of course we are talking about a very hot-running or abusive application, which these Sanyo WF caps did not see.

In the case of the GeForce 6200 video card, the modded heatsink I put on it keeps the GPU core below 55C under load, even in the hottest days in the summer (with an 80 mm fan on top, that is.) But the PCB on that card probably doesn't run above 45C - and again, that would be in the hottest summer days. Really, that whole card feels cool to the touch. I've also used that card maybe only for 100-200 hours (if even that much) since I recapped it in 2014. It was mostly infrequent use every few months. Same goes for the Intel Maverick motherboard. So these Sanyo WF caps didn't quite just sit on the shelf and also didn't quite see a whole lot of use either... which is probably the most optimal scenario for their life.

The other interesting thing I noticed about Sanyo WF is that both 6.3V and 16V are equally prone to failure. From what I've observed, this is not so much the case with United Chemicon KZG/KZJ and Nichicon HN/HZ (with 2005 date codes.) In fact, I still have a lot of 16V, 1500 uF and 1800 uF KZG that test well in-spec for capacitance and ESR that are about equally old as these Sanyo WFs or even older. Some are still in use, too. Same with Nichicon HN caps with 2005 date codes that I've pulled from the same Xbox 360 boards - if it's rated for 16V, it hasn't given me problems. With KZG, the only exception is the small 16V, 470 uF on a few boards. But everything else rated for 16V has been mostly OK.

Originally Posted by TechGeek

Add Sanyo WF to the bad caps list?

Yup.

Actually, a good number of people here have known that for a while, myself included. In fact, when the first batch of Sanyo WF caps started failing on my ECS MCP61PM-AM about 3-4 years ago, I looked up info here and found more examples of WF failed. But since these were mostly 6.3V caps, I figured they are probably similar to KZG, but maybe not as bad. But then as these 16V 1500 uF caps failed, it was clear at that point that WF series is just unstable. I thought of posting about this years ago, but just kept distracted with other things. Now that I finally snapped some pictures above, it seemed more appropriate that I should.

[momaka]

Originally Posted by momaka

In addition to that, I also have an ECS motherboard that used to have a bunch of Sanyo WF 6.3V, 1800 uF caps. When a few of them bulged, I removed them all eventually. Some were still OK for a while. But when I last checked after the above incident, all were now bulged and showing high capacitance too - some well above 4000 uF!

And looks like I took pictures of that too, back then. Just found out I had them yesterday, lol. (My file organization has slacked a bit for the lat 3-4 years.)
Anyways, pictures attached below.


I find it funny that the bulging cap is showing lower capacitance than the normal-looking one. But then look at its Vloss - a whopping 27% and ESR starting to climb too. I think what happens is the electrolyte keeps "attacking" the foil layer and at the same time also forms excess Hydrogen gas (with or without the presence of an external power source.) Then, once the cap's vent operates, the electrolyte starts to dry out, making the cap loose capacitance and increase in ESR.

On that note, I've been finding lately that both Teapo SC and Ltec LZP seem to fail most often in that manner as well. In fact, it seems that most crap caps seem to fail that way - i.e. first capacitance increases, then cap vents and capacitance starts to go down while ESR goes up. At least this is the case I've been seeing when recapping a few HiPro PSUs with failed caps this week. The caps in these PSUs were all in various states between still in-spec and completely failed. And at least from what I observed, caps that weren't yet bulging but starting to show slightly higher (or much higher) capacitance were in their "early" stage of failure (though still operational.) Once these built up enough pressure to bulge, their capacitances had gone down, just like with the Sanyo WF caps above. And once they had vented and leaked for a while, their capacitance was showing low (typically a fraction of their rated capacitance) and ESR at least several Ohms.

[oddbodd]

I recently had a look inside a mates old VHF Skymaster radio, which hadn't worked for years.

Not difficult to spot a problem. This was one of the 4 Callins 400uf 10v caps, dated 6705.

[PeteS in CA]

Early 1967?! I was in 7th Grade back then.

[momaka]

Originally Posted by oddbodd

Not difficult to spot a problem. This was one of the 4 Callins 400uf 10v caps, dated 6705.

Wow, that's over 40 years old!
Can't say I blame that cap for dying. Looking at how it ruptured though, it seems the electrolyte must have been good (or at least not dried) right until the failure... unless this was caused by a power surge or something similar?

Also, I don't know if this is just something on the picture or not... but that small 10 uF, 12V gray cap to the left of the cap that was blown also appears like it's about to go *boom* on one side. Probably a good idea to replace all of the electrolytic caps, given their age. Also any paper wax caps too, if any - I hear those fail quite a bit too.

By the way, are the color codes on those resistor hand-marked? It certainly looks like it. Makes you appreciate how much electronics have changed since back then (well, for the better and for the worse.)

Originally Posted by PeteS in CA

Early 1967?! I was in 7th Grade back then.

And I was... not here (on Earth).

[oddbodd]

The failure was unlikely to be caused by a power surge. It runs off a 9V battery [PP9].

Those old Callins weren't the most reliable, apparently. However, the radio sparked into life as soon as I replaced that cap with something I had lying around. I also removed the other 3 Callins, which seemed to be working OK, but have replaced them temporarily. I'll be replacing them all with some Panasonic FM 475uf 25v caps in due course.

That small grey cap appears to be OK. I think it's just the way the plastic coating curls around the end. I have four of these radios here at the moment [two are owned by me, and the other two belong to friends], and that cap looks the same on all four.

The resistors all appear to be hand painted.

Pictured is a very nice example of a VHF Skymaster that I acquired on ebay recently. The transistors in these usually suffer from the tin-whisker problem, so probably why this one isn't working. Suitable replacements are in the post [from Ukraine!].

I've owned one of these radios for over 50 years, but it's not worked for decades. A great radio in its day, so I hope to resurrect it. It's as dead as a doornail at the moment.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/masteradio_d517.html

[PeteS in CA]

Originally Posted by momaka

...
And I was... not here (on Earth).

Which planet were you on? Venus? The, ummm, 7th planet?

[momaka]

Originally Posted by oddbodd

Pictured is a very nice example of a VHF Skymaster that I acquired on ebay recently. The transistors in these usually suffer from the tin-whisker problem, so probably why this one isn't working. Suitable replacements are in the post [from Ukraine!].

I've owned one of these radios for over 50 years, but it's not worked for decades. A great radio in its day, so I hope to resurrect it. It's as dead as a doornail at the moment.
https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/masteradio_d517.html

Wow, that's a really cool radio! From the time when it actually meant something to own one, I imagine.

Originally Posted by PeteS in CA

Which planet were you on? Venus? The, ummm, 7th planet?

O.o I see what you did there.
... somewhere in between, I guess.