KZG 6.3v 820uf replacement

[73buick]

Got a Dell w/a bunch of blown KZG 6.3v 820uf caps. What should I replace these with? The store only has ZLH in these but they don't quite match the KZG specs. I have HZ 6.3V 1000uf on hand, will those work?

I just found I had some Rubycon AX 6.3v 820uf. It looks like they should work fine.

[Stefan Payne]

6.3V/820µF or maybe 1000µF Polymers like Nichicon L8.

[zuhr14]

I use for replace KZG series after a few experiments only Panasonic FM (with one level higher capacity)- all are OK and working with no problem.
On old mobos is (frequently) many(20+) KZG caps in various places. Isn´t warranted, that there is low or high frequency.

Polymer with multiplier 0,05 at 120Hz is in some cases(low frequency) unusable
FM is, in my opinion, universal resolution - can be used at low/high frequeny(polymer only with high)

FM is marked as Super Low ESR
http://industrial.panasonic.com/ww/p...minum-cap-lead
+FM is better than KZG.
+Longer life
+Easy obtainable(any voltage, any capacity)

[stj]

FR is longlife version of the older FM series.

[zuhr14]

Yes, but FM is better than FR and FM is longlife in relation to KZG

[linuxguru]

Has anybody found the datasheet of NCC KZV? The only ones I've found are references from KZG and KZJ datasheets that show KZV as being lower impedance than those two. It also seems to be a 2000-hr endurance series, similar to Rubycon MCZ. I have a few on hand for measurements, will check if they're comparable to MCZ and Nichicon HZ. If so, they would potentially be an excellent replacement for KZG and KZJ, and generally any 8-mm diameter ultra-low ESR series for VRM output applications (I know that this is the age of polymers, but KZV are available in higher capacitances and can be directly substituted).

[mockingbird]

If they're based on the same electrolyte as KZG and KZJ, then wouldn't you agree that they're not worth using?

I'll send an email to the rep and see if she sends it to me.

[Wester547]

Originally Posted by mockingbird

If they're based on the same electrolyte as KZG and KZJ, then wouldn't you agree that they're not worth using?

I'll send an email to the rep and see if she sends it to me.

Please do, thank you. I emailed them for a KZV datasheet last year but didn't receive a response. But then I emailed Panasonic for a FL datasheet as well and most certainly didn't receive a response. Wouldn't expect them to give up that one so easily. KZV was discontinued at the same time that KZJ was (late 2007), so NCC may not have a datasheet anymore.

Originally Posted by linuxguru

Has anybody found the datasheet of NCC KZV? The only ones I've found are references from KZG and KZJ datasheets that show KZV as being lower impedance than those two. It also seems to be a 2000-hr endurance series, similar to Rubycon MCZ. I have a few on hand for measurements, will check if they're comparable to MCZ and Nichicon HZ. If so, they would potentially be an excellent replacement for KZG and KZJ, and generally any 8-mm diameter ultra-low ESR series for VRM output applications (I know that this is the age of polymers, but KZV are available in higher capacitances and can be directly substituted).

They are failure prone, just like KZG and KZJ (in particular, the 820uF 4V 8x25 KZVs found in the VCORE output on some rather old Dell desktops... here is one example of a failure but you will find more if you search the forum). All ultra low ESR wet electrolytic series from Chemi-con are failure prone (TMV, TMJ, KZG, KZJ, KZV, KZL, etc... possibly KZA as well but can't say for sure) and probably use the same electrolytic formula. Also, according to the engineering bulletin (for all UCC series), only 4V KZVs were made and their capacitance ranged from 820uF to 2700uF. KZV is probably about equal to MFZ, GA, and HZ, but is certainly the least reliable of the four.

Rubycon AX may not be a terrible replacement for those 820uF 6.3V 11.5mm tall KZGs - they have a higher ripple rating but a somewhat higher ESR rating as well.

[linuxguru]

Originally Posted by Wester547

They are failure prone, just like KZG and KZJ (in particular, the 820uF 4V 8x25 KZVs found in the VCORE output on some rather old Dell desktops... here is one example of a failure but you will find more if you search the forum). All ultra low ESR wet electrolytic series from Chemi-con are failure prone (TMV, TMJ, KZG, KZJ, KZV, KZL, etc... possibly KZA as well but can't say for sure) and probably use the same electrolytic formula. Also, according to the engineering bulletin (for all UCC series), only 4V KZVs were made and their capacitance ranged from 820uF to 2700uF. KZV is probably about equal to MFZ, GA, and HZ, but is certainly the least reliable of the four.

It's possible that there have been failed KZVs in hot Prescott SFF VRMs, but I haven't actually seen any failed KZVs first-hand so far, but then again, I haven't seen too many KZVs at all. They were probably premium (Japan-only?) production, and may only have been used on server and workstation boards. I've certainly seen far more failures of KZG, Rubycon MCZ, Nichicon HM/HN, etc.

The KZVs I have are 820uF/4V 8x24 mm (probably similar to the ones in the Dell Dimension described above, though it's unclear if those are KZJ or KZV) which are nearly identical in dimensions to the 820uF/6.3V Japanese-production KZGs that I had mentioned earlier. Manufacturing code is 5 3 N (3).

The measurements are exceptional - ESR of 0.00 ohms (effectively sub 10-mohm, including contact resistance at the leads), and tan(delta) of 0.5%. It would be close to an ideal electrolytic, and it is very rare to find low-ESR and ultra-low ESR low-voltage electrolytics that are that linear - 0.5% is typically found in audiophile-grade electrolytics like Jelmax/Rubycon BlackGate F, Elna Cerafine and so on, and only at ratings of 50V and above.

This is an exceptional series, and I would probably re-purpose them for audiophile use for low-voltage bypass and blocking for DAC and line stages in CDPs, DACs, etc. Sub-miniature Black Gate PK is smaller (for instance, in the popular 220uF/4V 6.3mm diameter available at Parts Connexion, EBay and so on), but it is not anywhere as linear - tan(delta) on the PK measures somewhere around 2 to 3%, though it still sounds very good after run-in of 50-100 hours.

[Wester547]

Originally Posted by linuxguru

It's possible that there have been failed KZVs in hot Prescott SFF VRMs, but I haven't actually seen any failed KZVs first-hand so far, but then again, I haven't seen too many KZVs at all. They were probably premium (Japan-only?) production, and may only have been used on server and workstation boards. I've certainly seen far more failures of KZG, Rubycon MCZ, Nichicon HM/HN, etc.

I used to think that the KZG and KZJ failures, and for that matter, many bad cap failures, etc, were only a result of thermal duress or abuse as well, until it became evident that crap series and brands are capable of outgassing without ever having bias applied to their plates or without ever having conducted any current (or otherwise unsoldered, IE failure in storage). I'm sure you've witnessed this firsthand as well. Poor raw materials and unstable electrolyte can certainly beget that kind of failure which makes me nervous about using known bad series and brands but that's just me. KZVs are relatively rare, and that's why failure is less obvious compared to KZG, KZJ, etc. The Dell Dimension 8400 isn't a SFF machine either, although the CPU heatsink is only cooled by a single exhaust fan shroud in that model.

The KZVs I have are 820uF/4V 8x24 mm (probably similar to the ones in the Dell Dimension described above, though it's unclear if those are KZJ or KZV) which are nearly identical in dimensions to the 820uF/6.3V Japanese-production KZGs that I had mentioned earlier. Manufacturing code is 5 3 N (3).

They are likely KZV. Here is another example. That datecode would translate to March 14th, 2005, factory "3" - not sure if it's made in Japan or one of their Taiwanese factories, but Behemot may be able to clarify that. I will agree that the very early Nichicon HNs were worse than KZJ - so notoriously bad in fact that you would be hard pressed to find one that didn't blow from that time frame (2003-2004). I personally would not class MCZ down with KZG and the bad HMs/HNs. MCZ (and sometimes MBZ) seem to blow up only by way of relatively immense heat, which is characteristic of the highly H2O base electrolyte (lowering the boiling point of the electrolyte).

The measurements are exceptional - ESR of 0.00 ohms (effectively sub 10-mohm, including contact resistance at the leads), and tan(delta) of 0.5%. It would be close to an ideal electrolytic, and it is very rare to find low-ESR and ultra-low ESR low-voltage electrolytics that are that linear - 0.5% is typically found in audiophile-grade electrolytics like Jelmax/Rubycon BlackGate F, Elna Cerafine and so on, and only at ratings of 50V and above.

Yes, I would guess KZV, and possibly TMV, are about the same grade as HZ and Samxon GA.

[linuxguru]

Originally Posted by Wester547

That datecode would translate to March 14th, 2005, factory "3" - not sure if it's made in Japan or one of their Taiwanese factories, but Behemot may be able to clarify that...Yes, I would guess KZV, and possibly TMV, are about the same grade as HZ and Samxon GA.

11 years on the shelf, while still retaining spec., is no mean feat. For at least part of that time, it has been stored in sideways position, when the electrolyte no longer seals the lower bung and leads perfectly. I'm guessing that KZV will do fine as long as it is not simultaneously exposed to extreme heat as well high ripple currents. I'm doing a test recap of an older MSI Socket-A board with KZV on Vcore, just for evaluation.

[linuxguru]

It has now completed several hours of burn-in running Memtest86 without a single bit-error - previously, it used to throw up a random error or two on every pass. I'd recommend KZV as an 8mm replacement for KZG and KZJ on Vcore, as long as it doesn't get too hot. I'll also be trying these for Tualatin overclocks in due course.

[mockingbird]

Originally Posted by Wester547

Please do, thank you. I emailed them for a KZV datasheet last year but didn't receive a response. But then I emailed Panasonic for a FL datasheet as well and most certainly didn't receive a response. Wouldn't expect them to give up that one so easily. KZV was discontinued at the same time that KZJ was (late 2007), so NCC may not have a datasheet anymore.

Confirmed.

They were discontinued in 2007.

The ratings are absolutely identical to Nichicon HZ.

[linuxguru]

Originally Posted by mockingbird

The ratings are absolutely identical to Nichicon HZ.

Thanks, I'll mop up the NOS lot (not many, but enough for some critical 8 mm recaps including mini-ITX Atoms) today.

[Wester547]

Originally Posted by mockingbird

Confirmed.

They were discontinued in 2007.

The ratings are absolutely identical to Nichicon HZ.

Not to pry, but did they send you a datasheet or did they confirm that the series is a direct cross to HZ and that they no longer have a datasheet?

[Glishaso]

So quicks question i have mini atx motherboard with blown capacitors 820µF 6.3v can i replace them with 1000µF 25v (its only what i have atm here so just wondering to get proffesional answer on this tnx ! . its little confusing many says yes many says no so i thinkl this is best place to be asked: )

[andrewsawesomr]

Originally Posted by Glishaso

So quicks question i have mini atx motherboard with blown capacitors 820µF 6.3v can i replace them with 1000µF 25v

What brand and series are the original capacitors? What brand and series are the replacements?

[momaka]

Originally Posted by Glishaso

So quicks question i have mini atx motherboard with blown capacitors 820µF 6.3v can i replace them with 1000µF 25v (its only what i have atm here so just wondering to get proffesional answer on this tnx ! . its little confusing many says yes many says no so i thinkl this is best place to be asked: )

Short answer: YES**
But please note the considerations below.

----------------

** considerations:

KZG are ultra-low ESR series capacitors, made specifically for motherboards.
That being said, not all capacitors on a motherboard need to be ultra-low ESR (only the ones close to the CPU - i.e. the CPU VRM... and any other buck-regulated supplies.)

So depending on where the capacitor(s) are located on the motherboard, you may or may not be able to replace them with just any random non-ultra low-ESR capacitor brand. For example, for the CPU VRM (V_core), you really need ultra-low ESR caps. If you put regular (general purpose) caps, the motherboard may not work. Or, in the case that it does work but if the new capacitors are not ultra-low ESR, then the new caps may not last very long, especially if they are a cheap obscure brand no one has heard of.

In any case, any capacitor will be better than a bulged / leaking KZG, so give it a try. But if the motherboard still does not work, then either your new capacitors are not good enough, or there is a fault with the motherboard somewhere else as well. On the other hand, if the motherboard does end up working, consider the repair temporary, unless you used proper low ESR capacitors from a reputable brand.

As far as the voltage rating goes (i.e. using 25V-rated cap for a spot that had a 6.3V-rated cap)... that's totally fine. The only consideration then would be that your 25V caps will likely be much larger and not fit properly.

[ChaosLegionnaire]

well, thats the problem with internet forums. ppl post vague questions while providing vague information and expect a straight answer.

well, we're neither telepathic nor clairvoyant and we cant read your mind or see what u see so u have to provide that info for us. so we cant give you an answer until u provide proper information for us.