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Old 11-16-2009, 08:42 AM   #1
KountZERO
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Default FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

Hiya, decided to take the plunge and attempt to repair my tempremental Lappy.
After going round in circles with a bizarre power up issue [takes 100's of button presses to fire up] and being told numerous answers that all failed, i think i have narrowed the problem down to the 2 sanyo caps next to the pcie wifi slot.

Warming them a little with hot air allows the machine to boot normaly, cooling them causes the fault to manifest again. I guess they must have been cooked by the wifi card? As long as the laptop is warm it behaves impeccably and passes every test possible. But from cold it just flashes the battery light briefly.

I was under the impression that OSCON caps were more reliable than regular electrolitics?

So to get the point, the caps in question are 560UF and 390UF Sanyo Purples. I cant seem to find them online to order so am asking what you guys suggest i replace them with?

sorry about the blurry camera phone image btw

Cheers, kZ
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Old 11-16-2009, 10:41 AM   #2
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Default Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

Quote:
Originally Posted by KountZERO
Hiya, decided to take the plunge and attempt to repair my tempremental Lappy.
After going round in circles with a bizarre power up issue [takes 100's of button presses to fire up] and being told numerous answers that all failed, i think i have narrowed the problem down to the 2 sanyo caps next to the pcie wifi slot.

Warming them a little with hot air allows the machine to boot normaly, cooling them causes the fault to manifest again. I guess they must have been cooked by the wifi card? As long as the laptop is warm it behaves impeccably and passes every test possible. But from cold it just flashes the battery light briefly.

I was under the impression that OSCON caps were more reliable than regular electrolitics?

So to get the point, the caps in question are 560UF and 390UF Sanyo Purples. I cant seem to find them online to order so am asking what you guys suggest i replace them with?

sorry about the blurry camera phone image btw

Cheers, kZ
I prefer Panasonic FM or FC series, but the voltage and size of the originals will be a factor. Other very good brands are Rubycon and United Chemicon.

PlainBill
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Old 11-16-2009, 12:10 PM   #3
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Default Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

Well, your picture really is one of the worst I've ever seen but anyway that does still not look like a Sanyo OS-CON capacitor
Either take a better pic or provide all what is written on them

Of course your diagnosis seems correct, but you need to make sure to replace them with suitable capacitors (and since these have failed probably better capacitors than what it currently has)
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Old 11-16-2009, 12:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

Ah i'm daft, i meant to add more info about the caps themselves

Markings are - reading around the can:

sanyo
390
6.3
OSCON
G
SP
106c 6A

and

560
4
OSCON
G
SP
106c 76

My appologies
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Old 11-20-2009, 07:03 AM   #5
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Default Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

This one looks suitable

http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...-3v/dp/9691847

but i cant find a 390uf of a similar physical size
and type
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/bro...26catalogId%3D

what should i use instead, a 470?

cheers, guys
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Old 11-20-2009, 08:49 AM   #6
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Default Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

i doubt its the oscons.probably some lytic on the other side you are warming.
do you have an esr meter?
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:00 AM   #7
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Default Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

Unfortunatley no, i just have a regualr multimeter that does resistance, ac/dc continuity etc, there are no components on the reverse in that area though and cooling the can of the caps with a lump of metal fresh from the freezer triggers the fault. So im fairly sure thats where the problem is.
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:23 PM   #8
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Default Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

>>and cooling the can of the caps with a lump of metal fresh from the freezer<<
Very ingenious.

Try pushing on the area with a wooden or plastic stick. i.e.- a pen

Could be bad solder joint(s). The pressure you apply with the "freezer metal" could be enough to trigger it.

My suspects would be the 2 coils nearby (black squares) as they are SMD's.

Just my 2p.

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Old 11-25-2009, 01:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

Prodded around with a plastic prodding thing i found in drawer but couldnt find an cold joints, the solder all looks nice and bright tbh. So i took a sheet of card cut from a cereal box and made a head shield around the caps so that the hot air only hit them and was deflected away. The laptop boots when the caps are hot and they seem to run quite hot as well when the machine is in use.

All the components around the area are noticebly cooler than the caps. Just for piece of mind i reflowed the leads on the caps to the mobo with a dab of fresh solder and loads of flux when i 1st suspected the area was at fault, no change.

When you say the 2 coils, do you mean that they are possibly faulty or do you mean they might have cold joints?

I'm tempted to just whip out these os-cons and put in some pana's but like i stated before i'm unsure which ones on farnells to go for as i cant get direct type for type replacements and would be getting ones of higher value at least in the case of the 390uf's

thanks for all the help so far tho guys.
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Old 11-25-2009, 02:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/pro...sp?sku=1691080

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/pro...sp?sku=1691082

Yes, I meant the coils are SMD and could be cold solder joints. The flexing of the area you did rules them out though.

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Old 11-25-2009, 03:12 PM   #11
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Default Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

Ahha awsome Toasty, will bee bagging those. Will report back

thanks again
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Old 11-25-2009, 03:31 PM   #12
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Default Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

i want the oscons when you pull them.will be interesting to see how they fail.
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Old 11-25-2009, 06:32 PM   #13
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Default Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

I guess there is a finite life for the caps, its a 4year old machine that gets constant use [i dont turn it off once its booted everyday] and they are notoriously hot running as many a dead 6800gt graphics card will testify to lol. I wish it was as simple as a cold joint as theres a 16 pound delivery charge on them as they appear to be coming out of US stocks. I'll reflow the chokes tho, cant hurt, just means i have to pull the mobo out sooner than expected.
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Old 11-26-2009, 12:56 AM   #14
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Default Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

Somewhat odd failure, and they're right next to the pot-core inductors which are more likely to have vibration or stress-induced failures like cracks and cold-solder joints. Anyway, you can try replacing the OSCONs with polymers of similar value, say Nippon Chemi-con PS* series (there are about half-a-dozen series with slightly differing specs).
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Old 11-26-2009, 05:04 AM   #15
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Default Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

@KountZERO - Where are you located?

Another thought, are they on or near the power supply connection? You might want to check out the power brick if they are. Could be indicating problems within.

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Old 11-26-2009, 05:22 AM   #16
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Default Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

I'm in the UK, they are at opposite side of the mobo from the power jack/battery connectors and Maxim chip. I always thought that it was unlikely that the os-con's would fail myself because of their rep but without an esr meter i am resorting to the heat/cold tests which annoyingly point to them. As a thought, there are a couple of ceramic chip smd caps very close to the inductors and the oscons, the solder looks bright but could they be responsible? i hope not as i dont have a scematic for the mobo and getting the values would be problematical
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Old 11-26-2009, 05:33 AM   #17
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Lightbulb Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

Do they get warm running on just the battery?
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:21 AM   #18
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Default Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

Yes they do, just bearable to hold your finger on but painful for want of a better description lol

edit

ah do u mean the smd caps or os-cons? the os-cons get hot
I should add the problem happens with both the official power brick and a universal one

Last edited by KountZERO; 11-26-2009 at 07:23 AM..
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Old 11-28-2009, 07:19 AM   #19
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Default Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

Update, reflowed all the solder around the area to no effect. Looking more like the os-con's every time i look at it
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Old 11-28-2009, 11:40 AM   #20
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Default Re: FS Amilo M3438G OS-CON replacement help

You haven't ordered them yet???

Any other caps like these on mobo? Could be a bad batch. Better to do them all.

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