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    Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

    Pioneer Pro-FHD1 Elite. Failure to power on.

    I'm new to this awesome forum, and have been reading like mad, but have not seen the answer to my challenge.

    We bought this Panasonic plasma monitor 16 years ago and it has never been serviced, so all parts are original, and the unit has never malfunctioned -- until about a month ago. The system fails to power on. At first (a month ago) this happened rarely. We learned to unplug for a few minutes to drain the caps, then re-plug, and the monitor would start normally. Now, we plug-in, turn on the main power switch, and the red "stand-by" light illuminates. When we press the "ON" switch (using the remote control or onboard switch), the blue "Power" light comes on for about 6 seconds (as the screen goes to dark grey, then back to black, with a power board double relay "click" audible). Then there is another single relay "click" and the red "Standby" light flashes 3 times, then pauses about 3 seconds and repeats over and over. The screen stays black.

    Now, if we repeat the de-power/re-power process many times, the monitor eventually powers on, and functions normally (beautifully) -- until the system is turned off and cools down for a few minutes. If the monitor is shut-down and restarted while warm, it usually re-starts normally.

    All of the caps (except maybe one) on the Power Supply Module look normal, but I suspect that there is a component failure on that board. I have physically plugged/unplugged all of the wire bundles to the Power Supply Module, and tightened the mounting screws. I thought that one 2200 uF 10V cap on the power supply board looked very slightly bulged, so I replaced it, but no change.

    The board is labeled as manufactured by SanKen, with a part number sticker showing: AXY1148BE0606008931. Photo attached (I hope)!
    Attached Files

    #2
    Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

    From what I've been reading, this may be a protection fault, not necessarily a power supply fault. I'm going to continue searching all of the boards for obvious problems visually. Any ideas?

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

      It's interesting to see very little information on the Pioneer PROFHD1 anywhere. I can't find a specific Service Manual for this monitor, but lots of information for several other Pioneer Plasma TVs. Except for schematics, of course!

      I'm not going to give up on this beautiful machine. When it's running, it's beautiful, and frankly, I like the clean, well laid-out design. This early Pioneer Plasma seems have excellent craftsmanship. It was trouble free for 16 years!

      I did see a curious recommendation somewhere that said: "heat small areas of the suspect board with a hair dryer, then switch it on to see if that allows power-up". It's true that once this monitor kicks on and warms up, you can turn the (physically) hot machine on and off repeatedly with no problems.

      Curious...

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

        prolly just more bad caps, try switching out a few more in that area where you found the bad one, those caps have been working hard for 16 years, some might not be up to par. The hairdryer advice is very sound, have found many bad caps with the technique.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

          Originally posted by nomoresonys View Post
          prolly just more bad caps, try switching out a few more in that area where you found the bad one, those caps have been working hard for 16 years, some might not be up to par. The hairdryer advice is very sound, have found many bad caps with the technique.
          Thank You Nomoresonys! I'll give that power supply board the hot air treatment and report back.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

            IT WORKED!

            I used a hair drier to heat the same small area of the Power Supply Board where I already replaced one very slightly bulged cap -- and the monitor started normally! Damn! I let it cool down, and it failed to start. I reheated the same are, and it started normally again. AMAZING! Repeated again, just to confirm.

            When I asked my wife whether we could just leave her hair dryer by the monitor, next to the wall mount...she gave me the look. You know the look. That crossed arms "you've got to be kidding!" look.

            Soo, I'm going to be doing some desoldering, and cap replacement over the next few days.

            If you have this problem on this board, it's near the C151 and C153 caps.

            I'm so happy. Thank you nomoresonys, and the rest of you helping this community!

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

              Glad to hear it, lol, I was just reading somewhere that a family kept heating the board thru the vents every time they wanted to watch tv, they said it lasted for over a year til it didn't work anymore.
              Last edited by nomoresonys; 01-23-2023, 07:54 PM.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

                So far, I've replaced 8 caps in the area of the power supply board that I was heating with the hair dryer. 6 of the 8 caps test within 20% of the labeled uF value. Two of the larger caps (1000uF and 2200uF) test out of limits ("OL") on my Klein MM450 multimeter. I'm guessing that it's my meter that is the issue there...

                The monitor is still not turning on normally, but it is noticeably better. That is to say, it powers up every third time that it's switched on. There are 3 more obvious caps in the area of the power board, that when heated, return the monitor to normal start-up, so I'll remove and replace those as well. It's just a process of elimination, eh?

                I'll attach a photo with the caps that I've removed, that are labeled with the circuit board locator designation (e.g. "C252").
                Attached Files

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

                  sure, replace those, then at least they can be eliminated as the problem if it don't fix it.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

                    For those who are interested in my work on the Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Plasma Monitor power supply board trouble shooting, I replaced an additional 11 Caps from the area of the board that responded when I heated it with a hair dryer. The two largest Caps in that area (280V, 820uF) I could not find locally or at DigiKey or anywhere else that I searched, so I tested them by charging/draining them using a 12V battery and they seemed to hold a charge, and drain with a 5W resistor. I soldered them back in. If you look above at the photo that I posted of the board, these are the big Caps on the upper left of the board.

                    Guess what? There was no change. I found a way to precisely target those big Caps with hot air while isolating the rest of the board with cardboard, and when they are heated above about 90F (37C), the systems starts and shuts down repeatedly normally. As those Caps slowly cool with a fan, the unit starts once, then after shutting down, will not restart. I did the dedicated heating-cooling if those two Caps four times with exactly the same results.

                    I've narrowed it down to those two caps -- that I cannot find. They are Nippon Chemi-Con 280V, 820uF (65C186) aluminum electrolytic snap-on units. As I have read, United Chemi-Con is the US subsidiary, but I cannot find a source. Does anyone have a recommendation? I live on Florida's Space Coast (Merritt Island).

                    I'll attach a photo of the Caps that I've replaced in this recent batch, with the board locator numbers marked.
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by Phil Stasik; 02-11-2023, 01:00 AM. Reason: Mis-stated the number of caps.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

                      The two big caps, are they top left in the photo ?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

                        thats about the best price I see, make sure they aren't too big around to both fit in the space available: https://www.ebay.com/itm/20223529796...Bk9SR96Ll5HIYQ

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

                          Thank You, Diif and Nomoresonys! Sincerely.

                          Yes, I'm now more confident that the problem is the two large caps in the upper left of the photo of my power supply board.

                          I'm a big fan of always buying local to support our dwindling electronics supply stores, but when they really don't have what I need, I've been very happy with DigiKey. Even they don't carry these caps. I should have thought to search EBay sooner. I'm not familiar with the vendor: "Golden O Electronics".

                          Here's a question for those of you with a lot more experience than I have (that's probably been asked and answered a million times):
                          Q - Is it true that the only hard requirement when replacing a cap is the capacitance rating -- as long as the voltage is equal to, or greater than the original?

                          I'm somewhat skeptical of that, and have been trying to match the OEM manufacturer, as well as the exact voltage, capacitance, and series, if I can. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that the ideal is to get the cap with the highest temperature rating with the longest operating hours, to make my repair last a long time. Hole spacing and size are important, but can be flexible if there's enough open space on the board and in the case.

                          My guess is that the application probably matters a lot. This is a power supply for a plasma monitor. The spec.s are probably much tighter for an aerospace application, computer, or scientific instrument.

                          Then again, perhaps "Beggars can't be choosers", eh?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

                            I would go with the 820uf 400volt, they seem more readily available which usually means cost less than trying to hunt down 280 v, its quite ok, all the extra voltage means is it can take more running thru it and still be ok, you want 105c low esr caps, here's some reading on the caps, it lists 1st tier, 2nd tier caps, anything in those 2 tiers should do you well, that particular vendor has 100% rating, it don't get better than that, it's probably discounted compared to digikeys 21 dollars per cap, because it's new old stock from 2014, which means its unused but made in 2014: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...01,4193-5.html
                            Last edited by nomoresonys; 02-12-2023, 12:44 PM.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

                              Thank you again Nomoresonys! That is a great link, and a very interesting article! I really appreciate that list of Cap manufacturers, with the focus on tiers of quality. I noticed that even though this power supply board is the only one (on this monitor) that Pioneer had subcontracted out to SanKen in Indonesia, that the Caps all seem to be made by Nippon Chemi-Con, a top-tier manufacturer.

                              Really, I do appreciate your help! Now it's time to do some informed shopping...

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

                                Did you isolate the two smaller caps next to the large ones when you did your test?

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

                                  Thanks for asking! I've been offline, and seriously beaten down, with Covid.

                                  Yes, I did isolate the suspected caps from all of the surrounding components with a cardboard baffle system that directed the hot air from the hair blower. I also repeated the tests over and over, with a good cool-off period between tests.

                                  Really, I was kind of skeptical of this test to begin with, but the experiment has been repeatable, and it seems that others have had success, so it is duplicable.

                                  My local electronics store has tried to get replacement cap.s with no luck. I'm just feeling well enough to get back into the search for new, high quality replacement caps.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

                                    I finally located replacement capacitors that are brand new (from DigiKey) that are from the original manufacturer (Nippon Chem Con).

                                    Sadly, it didn't work. I didn't damage anything, either -- which is difficult with these big "snap-in" caps. They have to be wiggled out/wiggled in, with some force.

                                    3 of the replacement caps are the same 450V, 270uF as the originals. The other 2 have the same 820uF as the originals, but are a bit physically larger and are 315V rather than the original 280V.

                                    For the heck of it, I heated the same area of the board that led me to suspect the 2 big 820uF caps -- and the monitor started normally. Repeatedly. When warmed in the corner, it started up half a dozen times, without fail.

                                    I let it run for awhile to heat up the the whole system, and it started and restarted a dozen times without fail, but I'll bet that once it cools down, that it won't start again.

                                    There are a couple of other ceramic capacitors, diodes, and a resistor in the immediate vicinity of the big caps that I replaced, and they may also have been heated as well.

                                    My question -- is it possible that the other components are the heat-sensitive items? I'll attach another photo of the board before I installed the replacement caps.

                                    I just keep eliminating variables...
                                    Attached Files

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

                                      Is that a small electrolytic capacitor to the right of the two big caps and left of the bunch of caps ? There are two there i think.
                                      Attached Files
                                      Last edited by diif; 05-06-2023, 12:19 AM.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Re: Pioneer PRO-FHD1 Elite Plasma Monitor Start-Up Problem

                                        Thank you for your keen observation, diff! Yes, those are small electrolytic caps! I did replace both of those guys on my second wave of cap replacement. Near them on the board, (and possibly affected by my heating experiment) are a resistor, two variable resistors (that they filled with globs of RTV), 5 diodes, and a transistor.

                                        I'm thinking of replacing all of them (other than the variable resistors, which are assumedly pre-set).

                                        Maybe that's overkill, but I've eliminated most of the other variables, and moderate heating has lead me to this corner of the board. If I'm going to desolder a component to test it, I might as well replace it.

                                        What do you think? Thanks again for your help!

                                        Comment

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