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Server as video/3D editing station...feasible ?

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    Server as video/3D editing station...feasible ?

    Good day folks. I usually don't ask these kind of things since I consider the topic way too broad and open for debate, but I'm planning an upgrade to my rig....and by upgrade I mean replace it with a server...no no no, I know...wait wait, don't shoot yet Sounds stupid, I know (it could very well be ), that's why I decided to discuss the idea before diving into a potentially stupid and wasteful project.

    Where the idea came from and why it may not be that crazy: for years now I've been using a Xeon X5460 as my CPU - it plays very nicely with my Asus P5Q Premium and I even pulled off some moderate overclocking thanks to the Noctua NH D15 it's got on top. The RAM is a bit MEH, being only DDR2, a set of 4, 2GB Corsair Vengeance for a total of 8GB which can't go higher than that unfortunately. Add a Radeon R9 390 to this and you've got my current specs right there and a pretty....decent (?) rig.

    During one of my random searches for "Xeon" on my favourite auction site, I came across some interesting setups, with stuff like 6,8 and even 10 core CPUs for reasonable prices, sometimes bundled with 2 or even 4 CPU motherboards, with hundreds of GB or RAM ! Remember, the only reason I jumped on the Xeon bandwagon in the first place is because the price-performance ratio was more than positive, offering more than just bang-for-buck performance. While the prices for more advanced Xeons I found are not exactly cheap, they're still perfectly reasonable for what they offer, compared to "mainstream" alternatives from the "iX" family....where are you going to find a 2 CPU motherboard and 2 10 core CPUs ? You're not getting that at your local PC store, that's for sure....

    Another alternative is similar to my current setup, which is a CPU normally designed for servers, installed on a desktop motherboard which is not normally intended for: I found a Xeon E5-2680V2 10 core CPU which supposedly works with an LGA2011 MB, which can be obtained relatively easy from the "desktop" category. Would such combo even fire up ? A very quick and superficial search showed that such a CPU COULD work with a consumer MB as long as you match some socket version or some sh!t like that - haven't dug too deep yet, although if you think about it my current setup is the same thing, just an older generation, so my guess is that it ought to work with more recent releases as well if you do your research.

    To recap:

    1) can a setup built entirely with server parts, multiple CPUs, overblown specs and dedicated hardware function as your every day computer ? Is it feasible to build something like this and attempt to use it as a PC ? I'm thinking mostly about compatibility issues down the line and things like lack of drivers and support for anything other than Win Server.
    2) if not, what would be your best shot at stuffing a ridiculous number of cores a "commercial" MB that can still run ?
    Wattevah...

    #2
    Re: Server as video/3D editing station...feasible ?

    yes, just put Linux on it.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Server as video/3D editing station...feasible ?

      Trouble is most programs don't run under Linux.....if that was a legit answer
      Wattevah...

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Server as video/3D editing station...feasible ?

        Originally posted by Dannyx View Post
        To recap:

        1) can a setup built entirely with server parts, multiple CPUs, overblown specs and dedicated hardware function as your every day computer ? Is it feasible to build something like this and attempt to use it as a PC ? I'm thinking mostly about compatibility issues down the line and things like lack of drivers and support for anything other than Win Server.
        2) if not, what would be your best shot at stuffing a ridiculous number of cores a "commercial" MB that can still run ?
        I didn't see any mention of how this intended to tie in with "video/3D editing station"... <shrug>

        To answer your specific questions:
        • I use servers, routinely, as workstations. The downside is the fan noise -- which can be offset by locating them remotely.
        • If you're a Windows junkie, then you're probably at the mercy of MS and the hardware vendor for drivers. You can probably ignore the need for certain drivers by just treating the associated hardware as "absent". Likewise for external peripherals. But, essential hardware (see last bullet) can end up limiting your choice of OS based on the drivers you can dig up and coerce into working.
        • The NET performance that you will receive from your platform will largely be dependant on your workload and workSTYLE. I.e., if you are the type that needs to poke at a solution and "see if it works", then you'll want faster turn-arounds from the software. OTOH, if you are more confident in your skills/approach, you can put everything in place and let the machine work at its own pace (while you do something else -- like sleep!) E.g., I've frequently built very detailed CAD models that required 20+ hours to render, completely. And, many 3D animations can easily take considerably longer than that if rendered "in one shot".
        • sheer numbers of cores isn't a panacea. The (as yet, unspecified) software that you're using will determine how effectively those cores will be used. Many video/CAD apps use the GPU for much of the number crunching so a better video card can be worth more than the "CPU(s)".
        • some tasks are ill-suited for software solutions, regardless of the number of cores. E.g., my video workstation has the ability to mix CGI with live video (from a camera, in real time -- think "nightly weather forecasts") but by relying on dedicated hardware to do so.


        One of the advantages of real server hardware is that you can usually get many more spindles (think RAID0) for a fatter pipe to/from secondary storage.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Server as video/3D editing station...feasible ?

          Got carried away with typing and conveying a lot of info into as little as possible and forgot some key details. The video and 3D editing part refers to how well such programs would perform on multi-CPU rigs...true, this heavily depends on the actual program, in my specific case Cinema 4D. Mind you I'm not a pro user of C4D...just a random kid messing around and experimenting with stuff - clicking on stuff until things "look right" so to say I did some digging around and it while it DOES seem tp support GPU hardware rendering, which would certainly benefit me more since I have a slow CPU, they haven't perfected it yet and actually implementing GPU rendering in your "scene" is not as easy as changing an option and letting it get on with itself - the renderer used affects how the scene turns out, the lights, the shadows all of that...at first I thought it'd simply "toggle" between CPU and GPU rendering, but it affects how you "build" your scene entirely, so all in all I'm stuck with CPU rendering, hence the idea that more cores = better render times.

          Driver support is indeed an issue which I've had in mind from the get-go. Take the graphics card for instance: I can't imagine the R9 390 working well on a server board just like that....it will display something perhaps, but only as a "Microsoft basic display adapter" or "Generic video device", you know what I'm talking about. The problem can also work the other way around: if I do commit to running a server OS which supports the board and its devices, then the programs might not run on it, although come to think of it.....aren't these Windows Server OS...s still based around their "client" version kernel (?), like Server 2003 being the same as XP, Server 2012 being like Win 8 and 2016 like 10, which would theoretically mean apps can run on either ?
          Wattevah...

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Server as video/3D editing station...feasible ?

            Originally posted by Dannyx View Post
            Driver support is indeed an issue which I've had in mind from the get-go. Take the graphics card for instance: I can't imagine the R9 390 working well on a server board just like that....it will display something perhaps, but only as a "Microsoft basic display adapter" or "Generic video device", you know what I'm talking about.
            Many (esp older) servers don't support PCIe or even AGP. Instead, opt for things like PCI-X. Their focus is not on "user interfaces" (e.g., heads), but, rather, interfaces with other COMPUTERS. So, multiple NICs, support for a variety of I/O cards (HBAs, etc.) and other things that help it process and move data. Often, the video is simple AMD "on-board".

            [I used to have to hunt around to find dual-head *PCI* video cards for my servers.]

            You may be better served finding an older "workstation" to dedicate to some SPECIFIC needs. E.g., This week, I'm building a Z800 to act as my DTP and "graphics illustration" workstation (Z800's simply because I've rescued several of them in recent weeks). I'll later build another for use as my "software development" workstation.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Server as video/3D editing station...feasible ?

              I have been using Xeon based servers for workstations for long time now for precisely that reason 'costing' cant say I have had any problems with drivers etc for them.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Server as video/3D editing station...feasible ?

                https://itsfoss.com/best-video-editing-software-linux/

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Server as video/3D editing station...feasible ?

                  Just keep in mind if you are after many cores that the AMD Threadripper CPU might give more performance per buck.
                  Also important to keep in mind that the number of cores / CPU's if you are comparing old servers is not the only metric.
                  Of course the architecture itself is the most important.
                  That's why you can find these servers at bargain prices to begin with:
                  Some large hosting company has replaced them with better performing systems... (Better performance, lower power consumption).
                  "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Server as video/3D editing station...feasible ?

                    The chap who sells all these server things also suggested this upon hearing my project: an ASUS KGPE-D16 which can take a pair of AMD Opetrons. As you guys pointed out, despite its sheer core count, it still looks like fairly old tech, the most disappointing part of it to me personally being that pretty wimpy Sata2 controller - no improvement over my current setup there and we all like faster disk access, don't we ? And yes, I am running SSDs, in case you're wondering - forgot to mention that in my post. I actually have a Samsung M.2 one lying around that I would like to use, but an M.2 slot on a board from that generation is not going to happen any time soon I reckon. I'm not sure the performance gain would be worth the price *in the long run*. Still cheaper than an equivalent modern-day setup, that's for sure...
                    Last edited by Dannyx; 08-19-2018, 03:52 AM.
                    Wattevah...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Server as video/3D editing station...feasible ?

                      I managed to narrow my searches down to these two, which are within an acceptable price point:

                      -HP Proliant DL580 G5

                      -HP Proliant DL380 G6

                      The G6 has less cores (12) but has DDR3 memory support, while the other one has 24 cores but is only DDR2. Both are old-school tech, but should do the job...what do you guys think ? Like if you were to choose one, what would you look for ?

                      Another issue is running stuff on a server OS...haven't played with them before so I don't know what would work and what wouldn't....
                      Last edited by Dannyx; 08-25-2018, 08:57 AM.
                      Wattevah...

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Server as video/3D editing station...feasible ?

                        missed my link then?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Server as video/3D editing station...feasible ?

                          Originally posted by stj View Post
                          missed my link then?
                          The one about software on Linux ? No, I haven't, but those look less than professional...I was thinking something along the lines of Premiere Pro or something like that. I also use Cinema 4D, which sparked this whole craze in search of more cores in the first place. I reckon it will benefit it the most.
                          Wattevah...

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Server as video/3D editing station...feasible ?

                            some of those "less than professional" programs are used in the film industry!!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Server as video/3D editing station...feasible ?

                              Could be - haven't dug too deep TBH, so no arguing there.
                              Wattevah...

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: Server as video/3D editing station...feasible ?

                                Most programs will run just fine on WinServer. I think that the drivers also can be adapted for consumer versions of Windows. And I can tell you what will not run. Antiviruses for example, or other programs for personal use that have artificial limits. They can run on WindowsServer, it's just if they run on WindowsServer, then you are a company and have to pay money.
                                WindowsServer and consumer line of Windows operating systems share the same core and API. There may be some things that you will not be able to install, mostly because of artificial limits. Also, WindowsServer is much more restrictive in terms of security. You cant even open an internet page, if it's not in the local intranet, because of the security level imposed. Most of these things you can tweak without any problem.
                                Also, processor with 8 cores does not make it powerful machine. It may be 8 cores, but old generation and to struggle with tasks like Virtualization. I had one Dell server. 4 cores Xeon, but low end. Struggled with one almost idle VM on Windows2008R2.
                                I use virtualization extensively. To isolate different server services in separate containers and to be able to back-up the VHD in case of malfunctions, so I am able to just mount it on other server and to be up and ready. I have not automated the process yet, because I have only 4 physical servers currently running. If they were 40, perhaps I would have thought of something.
                                But make sure that the server has PCI-E slots! Often the tower servers do, but the rack mount ones depends
                                For ex HP 380p DL8 has PCI-E slots. But using risers, which makes it extremely hard to install VGA for example.
                                Also, rack mount ones are extremely noisy and often the fans run like a vacuum cleaner during high loads.
                                Tower ones are much better option usually if you want to do something like you intend.
                                Last edited by televizora; 12-01-2020, 06:39 AM.
                                Useful conversions. I don't "speak" imperial. Please use metric, if you want to address me.
                                1km=1000m=100000cm, 1inch=2.54cm, 1mile=1609.344meters, 1ft=30.48cm 1gal(US)=3.785liters, 1lb=453grams, 1oz=28.34grams

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