Badcaps.net Forum
Go Back   Badcaps Forums > Troubleshooting Hardware & Devices and Electronics Theory > Troubleshooting Power Supplies and Power Supply Design
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 
Thread Tools
Old 07-25-2012, 03:09 PM   #241
ben7
Capaholic
 
ben7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
City & State: Trenton, NJ
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 240/120V 60Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 3,989
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Quote:
Originally Posted by tleu8472 View Post
What uF and voltage ratings should I use to add/replace the secondary filtering caps? It does have resistors instead of coils - will this suffice for what will probably be a 250W max load system?
Make sure to use good brand name caps.

This is what I suggest:

3.3v----3300uf 6.3v
12v-----4700uf 16v
5v------3300uf 6.3v
-5v-----470uf 16v
-12v----470uf 16v
5vsb----1000uf 6.3v or 2200uf 6.3v
__________________
Muh-soggy-knee
ben7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 03:18 PM   #242
Agent24
I see dead caps
 
Agent24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
City & State: Hiding inside a plated-through hole
My Country: New Zealand
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 4,700
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Correct ESR is probably more of a concern, with a cheap PSU, capacitors with ESR too low can actually make ripple and noise worse.

I guess you should base that off the original capacitors.
__________________
"Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
-David VanHorn
Agent24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 03:59 PM   #243
c_hegge
Badcaps Veteran
 
c_hegge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
City & State: North Coast, NSW
My Country: Australia
Line Voltage: 240V 50Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 5,051
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Quote:
Originally Posted by tleu8472 View Post
It does have resistors instead of coils - will this suffice for what will probably be a 250W max load system?
Not at all. The resistors do not replace the coils and have absolutely nothing to do with the ripple suppression. They are there to provide a small 'dummy' load for the PSU, since SMPSs need a minimum load in order to start. If you want to improve the ripple suppression, you will need to add the coils. You can scavenge them from dead PSUs.

As for the ratings of the caps to use, ben7 did provide good ratings, but those are total capacitance. so on the 12V, for example, you could use two 2200uF caps. I'm pretty sure that PSU had room for two caps on the 12V rail.

Probably go with Panasonic FC or Nichicon PW series for this PSU.
__________________
I love putting bad caps and flat batteries in fire and watching them explode!!

No wonder it doesn't work! You installed the jumper wires backwards

Main PC: Core i7 3770K 3.5GHz, Gigabyte GA-Z77M-D3H-MVP, 8GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600, 240GB Intel 335 Series SSD, 750GB WD HDD, Sony Optiarc DVD RW, Palit nVidia GTX660 Ti, CoolerMaster N200 Case, Delta DPS-600MB 600W PSU, Hauppauge TV Tuner, Windows 7 Home Premium

Office PC: HP ProLiant ML150 G3, 2x Xeon E5335 2GHz, 4GB DDR2 RAM, 120GB Intel 530 SSD, 2x 250GB HDD, 2x 450GB 15K SAS HDD in RAID 1, 1x 2TB HDD, nVidia 8400GS, Delta DPS-650BB 650W PSU, Windows 7 Pro
c_hegge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 04:01 PM   #244
ben7
Capaholic
 
ben7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
City & State: Trenton, NJ
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 240/120V 60Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 3,989
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Also, replace those cheapy "HEC" primary caps, with two 470uf 200v.
ben7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 04:10 PM   #245
mariushm
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
City & State: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 3,720
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

I'd actually say "don't bother" replacing the primary caps on such a cheap poor quality psu. The ones that are now are probably good enough.

Also, probably not really recommended to go up to 3300uF on 3.3v, might be too much for such psu. 2200uF is probably more than enough.

Use 10v rated caps for 3.3v and 5v, from a series with not so low esr, like Panasonic FC, Nichicon PW etc
mariushm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 05:05 PM   #246
Heihachi_73
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
City & State: Melbourne
My Country: Australia
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 704
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

King World Enterprises, Proprietary Limidet(?!). No Serviceable Components- Inside. Well, they're right about that at least. The poor tiny transformer even says "YME" on it! In fact, it looks smaller than the one out of the 50W PlayStation 2 I disassembled a while ago. The upside? I have another 80mm fan to add to my collection and a PCB with 18 caps waiting to pop outside on 240V.

This thing struggled to power an office PC consisting of a single 10GB Quantum Fireball HDD, a CD-ROM drive, a floppy and a mainboard which didn't even have an AGP slot (the BIOS chip sits in its place). The only add-on card in fact was a 16-pin 56k modem, which was in its own port, blocking the topmost PCI slot. Everything on this PC was (presumably) factory, right down to the single stick of PC133 SDRAM and 800MHz Celeron. The 3 PCI slots and single ISA slot were seemingly never used, and the fan is almost spotless, no dust at all.

Upon plugging in my trusty old 110W Delta PSU, the board came to life immediately, defaulting to May 26 2001.

When I had found this PC, it had minor water damage, there was rust on the rear ports, and the cables had been cut - ATX/Molex cables, even the cables for the LEDs on the front panel and the CD-ROM audio cable (the HDD/floppy cables weren't touched however). Additionally, someone had obviously thrown it around as the case was missing the front panel and was slightly bent, along with the floppy and CD drive being trashed (the tray was completely ripped out!).

Admittedly, the case itself was made of such thin, flimsy metal that I could cut it with tin snips, it wasn't aluminum though since it was magnetic. I haven't yet tried the hard drive, however the floppy somehow still works after being straightened back out. There are no markings on the board saying what it is, but it is most definitely a variant of this board, the only difference being a 32-pin socketed AMI BIOS being in place of the QFP chip on that page, and the fact that my board has an ISA slot.

The mainboard's caps are a mixture of G-Luxon LZ, SM and SX. Surprisingly, none are bloated unlike the PSU which uses the usual Chinese crap like JEE (primaries), HEC and even Rulycon in this case (the two bloated caps around the 5V rail, and the rest of the black general purpose caps). Also of note, check out the middle "FET" strapped to the heatsink!

The PSU also had one inhabitant, which seemed to be a small redback/widow spider of some sort (however it had no red markings, and the abdomen was only 1/8" or 3mm in size).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg KingWorld250W02.jpg (434.1 KB, 168 views)
File Type: jpg KingWorld250W03.jpg (483.7 KB, 144 views)
File Type: jpg KingWorld250W04.jpg (465.5 KB, 141 views)
File Type: jpg KingWorld250W05.jpg (406.4 KB, 134 views)
File Type: jpg KingWorld250W06.jpg (466.3 KB, 145 views)
File Type: jpg KingWorld250W07.jpg (475.5 KB, 132 views)
File Type: jpg KingWorld250W08.jpg (424.2 KB, 120 views)
File Type: jpg KingWorld250W09.jpg (440.7 KB, 136 views)
File Type: jpg KingWorld250W01.jpg (927.9 KB, 152 views)
Heihachi_73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 05:12 PM   #247
Behemot
Badcaps Veteran
 
Behemot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Prague, 504'52.22"N, 1423'30.45"E
My Country: CZ
Line Voltage: 230 V/50 Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 4,774
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

OMG, dual-diode treatment The transformer really seems to be good for 100 W at most.
__________________
Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

Exclusive caps, meters and more!
Hardware Insights - power supply reviews and more!
Behemot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 06:18 PM   #248
Th3_uN1Qu3
Believe in
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
City & State: Bucharest
My Country: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 5,691
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Mmmm Rulycon... They fail without bloating most of the time, they just dry out, so i wouldn't be surprised that those are at fault for the demise of this PSU. Not that it's worth anything other than scavenging for parts.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS in CA View Post
Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
A working TV? How boring!
Th3_uN1Qu3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 06:52 PM   #249
Wester547
-
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: CA.
My Country: USA.
Line Voltage: 120-125VAC 60Hz.
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,267
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

I wonder what the schottky's are capable of in that... and if its fan is half-decent... as well as the switching transitor(s)... I'm willing to bet that transformer is fake too..... even the values on the label look underpar for a 250W (and they themselves are obviously lies). IMO. that's more like a 75W PSU (continuously)... I'm also willing to bet that it's less than 60% efficient.

EDIT: In that case, we're looking at a 50-60W continuous PSU... maybe even less...

Last edited by Wester547; 07-25-2012 at 07:16 PM..
Wester547 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 07:00 PM   #250
Behemot
Badcaps Veteran
 
Behemot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Prague, 504'52.22"N, 1423'30.45"E
My Country: CZ
Line Voltage: 230 V/50 Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 4,774
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

The thingy is, 75 W was more than enough for most PIII systems…got here an HP Brio BA410 system with 80 W high-quality PSU inside
Behemot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 08:52 PM   #251
b700029
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 637
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

...Oh Deer.

If you add up the values on the rails you get 256.2W, so at least they were reasonably close with the addition. The HD30D40PT is a 30A part, presumably serving the 3.3 and 5V rails, I'd say that's within the spec given. I can't read the number on the rearmost diodes but if that's for 12V it looks reasonable for a 10A part, although given the way the diodes-on-a-bracket are mounted maybe they're for 12V...

The transformer is probably good for 100W. I have a 95W laptop AC adapter and its transformer is qutie a bit smaller.
b700029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 08:58 PM   #252
ben7
Capaholic
 
ben7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
City & State: Trenton, NJ
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 240/120V 60Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 3,989
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Wow!

Whats up with the burn marks in the second pic?

To me, it looks like two caps are bulging on the secondary, one rulycon and another that I don't know of.
ben7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 09:03 PM   #253
c_hegge
Badcaps Veteran
 
c_hegge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
City & State: North Coast, NSW
My Country: Australia
Line Voltage: 240V 50Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 5,051
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

That would have made for a pretty good fireworks display
c_hegge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 10:09 PM   #254
Wester547
-
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: CA.
My Country: USA.
Line Voltage: 120-125VAC 60Hz.
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,267
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Quote:
Originally Posted by b700029
I have a 95W laptop AC adapter and its transformer is qutie a bit smaller.
Are AC adapters honestly capable of doing their rated wattage? They don't even have fans and get even hotter than PSUs do. Not to mention they're obviously much tinier, and it sounds like they have notably smaller transformers... of course, they wouldn't need to do their rated wattage given how little power a notebook draws, but I'm just curious is all. And usually, if you add up every value for every rail on a PSU label, you'll come up with around 50W-100+W more than the "maximum" or "continuous" rating on the label (though I'm sure that's common knowledge here), since not all rails can of course do their labeled rating (lucidly rated at each rail by itself) when combined.

And that "King World" must have a very weak switching transistor.
Wester547 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 10:36 PM   #255
mariushm
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
City & State: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 3,720
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
Are AC adapters honestly capable of doing their rated wattage? They don't even have fans and get even hotter than PSUs do.
Yes, most brand name ones are. It's only ONE voltage and it's usually 12v or higher, so a low number of Amps.

For example, in the psu discussion thread I posted a HP adapter and its insides and it's a 18.5v @ 3.5A (65w) model - for such voltage/current combo there's no need for a big transformer.

Heat is an issue long term as it can dry out the caps but the temperature usually stabilizes at a certain point so there's no problem with them. Also, the laptops don't really use the maximum the adapters can handle ex this 65w adapter probably averages 35-40 watts throughout the laptop use.
mariushm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 10:44 PM   #256
c_hegge
Badcaps Veteran
 
c_hegge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
City & State: North Coast, NSW
My Country: Australia
Line Voltage: 240V 50Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 5,051
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Most of the original ones can probably do their ratings, but I don't know about some of the cheap fleabay replacements.
c_hegge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 10:50 PM   #257
mariushm
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
City & State: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 3,720
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Quote:
Originally Posted by c_hegge View Post
Most of the original ones can probably do their ratings, but I don't know about some of the cheap fleabay replacements.
True, as can be seen here: http://electricstuff.co.uk/acadapter.html
mariushm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 10:55 PM   #258
Agent24
I see dead caps
 
Agent24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
City & State: Hiding inside a plated-through hole
My Country: New Zealand
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 4,700
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

I worry a bit about my Toshiba's power adaptor though. There are no vents, and the thing gets damn hot under full load, in fact they even have a warning label on it about it getting hot.

It's the original part but the OEM is AcBel, so I'm a bit sceptical about what brand capacitors they've used, considering the AcBel from my Power Mac was mostly full of crappy Teapo.

Problem is, it's all welded shut, no screws. I don't really want to cut it open until I can find a way to get it back together again nicely. Duct tape works but looks horrible.
Agent24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 11:03 PM   #259
Wester547
-
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: CA.
My Country: USA.
Line Voltage: 120-125VAC 60Hz.
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,267
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariushm View Post
I read that before... scary. I don't think "105C" is the honest thermal limit of a capacitor though... I always thought "105C" and "85C" were the rated limits of how much you can let a capacitor burn in an abuse test (how much ripple it can take) of 2,000 hours or so without going out of spec, which I don't think is the same thing as saying how long it will last under a certain temperature (which if I'm not mistaken is not unveiled due to legal stipulations).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent24 View Post
I worry a bit about my Toshiba's power adaptor though. There are no vents, and the thing gets damn hot under full load, in fact they even have a warning label on it about it getting hot.

It's the original part but the OEM is AcBel, so I'm a bit sceptical about what brand capacitors they've used, considering the AcBel from my Power Mac was mostly full of crappy Teapo.

Problem is, it's all welded shut, no screws. I don't really want to cut it open until I can find a way to get it back together again nicely. Duct tape works but looks horrible.
AC adapters will naturally get hot if you run your laptop at full speed (100% CPU speed) as it doesn't help that notebook CPUs get very hot at full load... AC adapters also get much hotter when going through charge cycles as opposed to staying at 100% (when the notebook is on, that is, which is why I recommend only charging your laptop when it's off).

I find it helps to keep the AC adapter on the floor and not on a shelf or something like. And it's likely the AcBel AC adapter has Teapo's as well (not sure if there would be room for much variety capacitor wise in an AC adapter). Though Teapos should do okay as long as they don't get hot in such an operating condition. One of my family's old Toshiba laptops also has a 75W (15V * 5A = 75W, 2.0A input rating) AcBel AC adapter and after 13,000 hours of use and 12,000 power cycles it's still going. Granted, I don't let it get hot, but I'm not sure of its history heat wise. I've also heard that there are little rubber feet that hide the screws on AC adapters, that you can peel off, though I don't know if that's the case with yours.

Last edited by Wester547; 07-26-2012 at 12:04 AM..
Wester547 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 12:25 AM   #260
c_hegge
Badcaps Veteran
 
c_hegge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
City & State: North Coast, NSW
My Country: Australia
Line Voltage: 240V 50Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 5,051
Default Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

^
Teapos are gonna get pretty toasty in an AC adapter.
c_hegge is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Badcaps.net Technical Forums 2003 - 2023
Powered by vBulletin ®
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:20 AM.
Did you find this forum helpful?