Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION - Page 2

**Per Hansson** · 01-18-2006, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newbie2

That's some good 350W power supply, but the pictures were a bit big.

Sorry bout that... I resized them a wee bit... Used the wrong size...

Yea, it's an impressive PSU... Also impressive that the PCE-TUR caps are fine... It's been in use for over 3 years, was bought 02-12-12...

**Newbie2** · 01-18-2006, 02:29 PM

We have seen I think two failures of PCE-TUR caps, it's weird that their failure rate is very low (or low) but PCE-TUR is on the bad caps list.

**Rainbow** · 01-18-2006, 04:02 PM

Looks like they're "good" bad caps

**dood** · 01-22-2006, 08:18 AM

wow... I'd never seen a "Vogue" power supply before... there's nothing in there! Also, I didn't realise they were still making AT supplies in 2000... or that anyone would still use one! I don't think I ever had an AT supply fail on me...

**Rainbow** · 01-22-2006, 10:44 AM

I've repaired some AT PSUs - shorted transistors and diodes. Never seen bulged caps in them.

**Mustang** · 01-23-2006, 11:28 PM

An overview of the build quality pictorial. There's PSU's that range from very old to a few of the latest models. It would seem to make sense if these pics were separated so if someone were to browse this forum trying to make an educated decision on buying a new PSU, they'd have the info readily available. Or perhaps a list of recommendations based on this pictorial?

**Oklahoma Wolf** · 01-23-2006, 11:39 PM

Sounds like a plan - we could also post an approximate date along with each PSU to give an idea when it was made. Not sure about the Enermax I just posted, but it's gotta be older than 10 years. The FSP530-60GNA is roughly two years old, the CWT 250W is around 8 years old, and the FSP600-80GLC is a brand new model.

**willawake** · 01-24-2006, 02:53 AM

i was thinking we should show the range of few good manufacturers. we already have a good covering of what seasonic is doing on Per's thread so we should have one on fortron and fortron built units (considering that global availability is good). it would be best to show only units that would still be available. it would be great if someone could figure out the fortron model numbering if there is any logic to it.

**Oklahoma Wolf** · 01-24-2006, 08:58 AM

There's a few things to remember about Fortron part numbers, but not really anything to tell how new they are from them. The part numbers starting with AX and ATX are usually lower quality units from them (more likely to contain Fuhjyyu anyway), while the FSP models are usually higher quality. Taking my FSP530-60GNA as an example, I believe the G is supposed to indicate 80mm fans while the N signifies the noise killer thermal fan controller. No idea what the A is there for, or what the 60 means. There is a FSP530-60GN with much higher 12v capacity - maybe that's what the A is for.

It seems like they change it slightly for new lines. The Blue Storms end in THA or THN depending whether or not they have a 80mm fan or 120mm fan respectively. Except the AX500-A, which is a line unto itself. The Green Powers are GLN (120mm) or GLC (80mm), and the Zen fanless line ends in 60GNF for both models. Then there's the Russia only OPS line. It's all a bit confusing.

**dood** · 01-24-2006, 09:41 AM

I was thinking about taking the pics from the pictorial thread and making them into a website, organized by brand, with just the top-down views on it, for a quick reference. That's kind of what I had envisioned for that thread, but then I got all picture-happy

**Newbie2** · 01-24-2006, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by japlytic

Vogue (rebadged Deer) 230W AT unit, manufactured July 2000. Viva primary caps; the rest Rulycon (my first real sighting of this brand!) and one CapXon.

I don't know why a company would make AT power supplies in the year 2000, when ATX was the standard.

That is the crappiest AT power supply I have ever seen. I thought the Astec SA145-3430 145W AT power supply (I don't have it anymore) was the crappiest AT power supply.

**Rainbow** · 01-24-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newbie2

L&C LC-B450 E 450W Power Supply

OMG, that's crap. I'd call it 200W max.

**larrymoencurly** · 01-24-2006, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newbie2

IThat is the crappiest AT power supply I have ever seen. I thought the Astec SA145-3430 145W AT power supply (I don't have it anymore) was the crappiest AT power supply.

Isn't Astec supposed to make the good stuff? I once had an ancient XT Astec that was built like a tank compared to everything else, including a LiteOn.

**Chris1992** · 01-24-2006, 06:30 PM

Yeah, Astec's PSUs I thought are good. I have a Mac Performa 6320CD with Astec PSU. Only thing is, I don't have a Mac monitor nor mouse nor kbd to test it.

**Chris1992** · 01-25-2006, 07:20 AM

How can I tell if a PSU has passive or active PFC? Willawake's Fortron Blue Storm 350w has passive but I don't see anything in there really different to my 350w Hipro PFC-less PSU.

**dood** · 01-25-2006, 07:32 AM

I think, in the picture that Willawake has in his post, it's the thing in the upper-right corner of the PSU, by the main caps... I think. If you compare his PSU to the Sparkle (Fortron) PSU that I posted earlier (the new one), you'll see that mine has a big open hole where that thing is supposed to go on overseas models.

**PeteS in CA** · 01-25-2006, 09:01 AM

Bingo, dood. And that inductor probably makes that corner of the P/S rather heavy, since the core is probably steel laminations.

**dood** · 01-25-2006, 01:48 PM

Something interesting that I've been noticing... on the cheaper, crappier supplies, you find the "warranty void if removed" stickers covering screws and seams and such... but on the more expensive or just higher-quality units, you usually don't. Iiiiinteresting...

**japlytic** · 01-25-2006, 07:38 PM

In the L&C LC-B450E 450W supply, the 330uF 200V primary capacitors are inadequate for a supply of this size. They should be at least 680uF.

820uF 200V primary capacitors in the Delta DPS300-BB 300W supply seem plentiful; an old Compaq Deskpro 386s 140W supply uses two 680uF 250V units in the primary.

**PeteS in CA** · 01-25-2006, 11:09 PM

Quote:

How can I tell if a PSU has passive or active PFC?

Passive PFC uses a large, heavy 50/60 Hz inductor. As mentioned above, the core will be stacked steel laminations, either E-core or U-core.

Active PFC will usually use a 400V or 450V I/P lytic. There will be an inductor, usually with a toroid core. I'm tempted to say there will be 3 devices on the primary-side heatsink, but this can vary, depending on whether the main inverter is a single-switch forward converter or a two-switch forward; also, the standby switch (or regulator) may be on that heatsink. So that can be misleading.

01-18-2006, 02:29 PM	#22
Newbie2 Badcaps Veteran Join Date: Sep 2005 City & State: Halifax, NS My Country: Canada Line Voltage: 120VAC 60Hz I'm a: Complete Noob! Posts: 862	Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION We have seen I think two failures of PCE-TUR caps, it's weird that their failure rate is very low (or low) but PCE-TUR is on the bad caps list. __________________ My gaming PC: AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Black Edition 3.3GHz Six-Core CPU (Socket AM3) ASUS M4A77TD AMD 770 AM3 Motherboard PowerColor AMD Radeon RX 480 8GB GDDR5 PCI-Express x16 3.0 Graphics Card G.SKILL Value Series 16GB DDR3-1333 RAM (4x4GB dual channel) TOSHIBA DT01ACA200 2TB 3.5" SATA HDD (x2) WD Caviar Green WD20EARX 2TB 3.5" SATA HDD ASUS Xonar DG 5.1 Channel PCI sound card Antec HCG-750M 750W ATX12V v2.32 80 PLUS BRONZE Power Supply Antec Three Hundred Mid-Tower Case Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit

01-18-2006, 04:02 PM	#23
Rainbow Badcaps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 City & State: Slovakia Posts: 1,089	Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION Looks like they're "good" bad caps

01-22-2006, 08:18 AM	#24
dood Deputy dood Join Date: Mar 2004 City & State: Berwick, PA My Country: USA Line Voltage: 120VAC 60HZ I'm a: Hardcore Geek Posts: 2,444	Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION wow... I'd never seen a "Vogue" power supply before... there's nothing in there! Also, I didn't realise they were still making AT supplies in 2000... or that anyone would still use one! I don't think I ever had an AT supply fail on me...

01-22-2006, 10:44 AM	#25
Rainbow Badcaps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 City & State: Slovakia Posts: 1,089	Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION I've repaired some AT PSUs - shorted transistors and diodes. Never seen bulged caps in them.

01-23-2006, 11:28 PM	#26
Mustang Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 City & State: Houston Posts: 196	Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION An overview of the build quality pictorial. There's PSU's that range from very old to a few of the latest models. It would seem to make sense if these pics were separated so if someone were to browse this forum trying to make an educated decision on buying a new PSU, they'd have the info readily available. Or perhaps a list of recommendations based on this pictorial?

01-23-2006, 11:39 PM	#27
Oklahoma Wolf Badcaps Veteran Join Date: Dec 2005 City & State: Saskatchewan Posts: 341	Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION Sounds like a plan - we could also post an approximate date along with each PSU to give an idea when it was made. Not sure about the Enermax I just posted, but it's gotta be older than 10 years. The FSP530-60GNA is roughly two years old, the CWT 250W is around 8 years old, and the FSP600-80GLC is a brand new model.

01-24-2006, 02:53 AM	#28
willawake Super Modulator Join Date: Nov 2003 City & State: Αθήνα Posts: 8,006	Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION i was thinking we should show the range of few good manufacturers. we already have a good covering of what seasonic is doing on Per's thread so we should have one on fortron and fortron built units (considering that global availability is good). it would be best to show only units that would still be available. it would be great if someone could figure out the fortron model numbering if there is any logic to it. __________________ capacitor lab yachtmati techmati

01-24-2006, 08:58 AM	#29
Oklahoma Wolf Badcaps Veteran Join Date: Dec 2005 City & State: Saskatchewan Posts: 341	Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION There's a few things to remember about Fortron part numbers, but not really anything to tell how new they are from them. The part numbers starting with AX and ATX are usually lower quality units from them (more likely to contain Fuhjyyu anyway), while the FSP models are usually higher quality. Taking my FSP530-60GNA as an example, I believe the G is supposed to indicate 80mm fans while the N signifies the noise killer thermal fan controller. No idea what the A is there for, or what the 60 means. There is a FSP530-60GN with much higher 12v capacity - maybe that's what the A is for. It seems like they change it slightly for new lines. The Blue Storms end in THA or THN depending whether or not they have a 80mm fan or 120mm fan respectively. Except the AX500-A, which is a line unto itself. The Green Powers are GLN (120mm) or GLC (80mm), and the Zen fanless line ends in 60GNF for both models. Then there's the Russia only OPS line. It's all a bit confusing.

01-24-2006, 09:41 AM	#30
dood Deputy dood Join Date: Mar 2004 City & State: Berwick, PA My Country: USA Line Voltage: 120VAC 60HZ I'm a: Hardcore Geek Posts: 2,444	Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION I was thinking about taking the pics from the pictorial thread and making them into a website, organized by brand, with just the top-down views on it, for a quick reference. That's kind of what I had envisioned for that thread, but then I got all picture-happy

01-24-2006, 06:30 PM	#34
Chris1992 Badcaps Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 City & State: Michigan, USA Posts: 557	Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION Yeah, Astec's PSUs I thought are good. I have a Mac Performa 6320CD with Astec PSU. Only thing is, I don't have a Mac monitor nor mouse nor kbd to test it. __________________ The great capacitor showdown!

01-25-2006, 07:20 AM	#35
Chris1992 Badcaps Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 City & State: Michigan, USA Posts: 557	Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION How can I tell if a PSU has passive or active PFC? Willawake's Fortron Blue Storm 350w has passive but I don't see anything in there really different to my 350w Hipro PFC-less PSU.

01-25-2006, 07:32 AM	#36
dood Deputy dood Join Date: Mar 2004 City & State: Berwick, PA My Country: USA Line Voltage: 120VAC 60HZ I'm a: Hardcore Geek Posts: 2,444	Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION I think, in the picture that Willawake has in his post, it's the thing in the upper-right corner of the PSU, by the main caps... I think. If you compare his PSU to the Sparkle (Fortron) PSU that I posted earlier (the new one), you'll see that mine has a big open hole where that thing is supposed to go on overseas models.

01-25-2006, 09:01 AM	#37
PeteS in CA Badcaps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 City & State: San Jose, CA My Country: USA, Unsure of Planet Line Voltage: 120VAC, 60Hz & 115VAC, 400Hz I'm a: Professional Tech Posts: 3,184	Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION Bingo, dood. And that inductor probably makes that corner of the P/S rather heavy, since the core is probably steel laminations. __________________ PeteS in CA Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells. Where might is right There is no right. - Sophocles in "Antigone" ************************** All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring ************************** To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.

01-25-2006, 01:48 PM	#38
dood Deputy dood Join Date: Mar 2004 City & State: Berwick, PA My Country: USA Line Voltage: 120VAC 60HZ I'm a: Hardcore Geek Posts: 2,444	Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION Something interesting that I've been noticing... on the cheaper, crappier supplies, you find the "warranty void if removed" stickers covering screws and seams and such... but on the more expensive or just higher-quality units, you usually don't. Iiiiinteresting...

01-25-2006, 07:38 PM	#39
japlytic Badcaps Veteran Join Date: Oct 2005 City & State: Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia My Country: Australia Line Voltage: 240VAC 50Hz I'm a: Hobbyist Posts: 1,993	Re: Power supply build quality pictorial DISCUSSION In the L&C LC-B450E 450W supply, the 330uF 200V primary capacitors are inadequate for a supply of this size. They should be at least 680uF. 820uF 200V primary capacitors in the Delta DPS300-BB 300W supply seem plentiful; an old Compaq Deskpro 386s 140W supply uses two 680uF 250V units in the primary. __________________ My first choice in quality Japanese electrolytics is Nippon Chemi-Con, which has been in business since 1931... the quality of electronics is dependent on the quality of the electrolytics.

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