Soldering station thoughts and guidelines

[stj]

i'v done that, but insulated wire has more possilbilty's for routing - if it's not going to disolve on the soldering tip!!

[diif]

With a stereo microscope and decent tweezers it's possible to do crazy routing with non insulating.
I have some of that chineae wire and my issue has not been the wire melts but I seem to have an issue getting the coating off.

[Dannyx]

Now there's a problem I didn't initially think of: the wire itself melting. I DID work with enamel copper wire before to run jumpers for destroyed pads on micro USB connectors on phones and tablets at my old shop, but not this thin and I agree: getting it to tin properly was a chore. I tried different methods over the years like taking a razor blade to it and gently scraping or taking a flame to it, but none produced satisfactory results. The blade method almost worked, but it often left behind uneven results, since the wire is round and the blade is flat, so getting ALL the coating off was impossible. The flame got the whole coating off in one go, but of course charred the wire which made tinning difficult, again, resulting in uneven coverage...the chaps over on Ali claim the coating comes off with just the iron, so fingers crossed it works

[diif]

I found a small bobbin of 0.1mm wire this morning that has a bronze colour coating similar to your link.
I can't see the coating meting away but i am able to solder the end and then bend the wire and solder and melt the coating at the same time on the next pad. Even at 500c there is no meting of the wire but then it's 10 times thicker than 0.01mm, that's insanely thin.
Possibly a bit to thin IMO for laptop trace repair.

[Dannyx]

Louis uses 0.08mm wire, so as I was searching for that exact size on Ali, those 0.01mm and 0.02mm spools popped out and I just went for it thinking thinner is better, not to mention they were very cheap. Like you said, I have NO idea how this is going to work as that is indeed microscopically thin...we're talking 10 friggin' microns here (20 if I use the "thicker" one) ! I'm not even sure I'll be able to SEE it, let alone solder it

[stj]

i have the .02 - it is hard to see!!!

[Dannyx]

I got the 0.01 and 0.02 as well, so fingers crossed I don't drop the spool off the desk and it turns into a hairball

[Dannyx]

This showed up in the mail today. The photo doesn't really do it justice, so here's the product page to see for yourself. It took me a while to find this, since it's as close as you're going to get to a MicroPencil. It still uses the T12 standard and I stumbled upon it mostly by accident among the ubiquitous T12 tips. Haven't tried it out yet.

[stj]

Originally Posted by Dannyx

I got the 0.01 and 0.02 as well, so fingers crossed I don't drop the spool off the desk and it turns into a hairball

not a problem, mine came in a pack of 3

[momaka]

I still don't understand the use for those ultra-thin tips. Aside from soldering very fine-pitched resistors and TSOP/TSSOP ICs, I'd hardly ever fine use for such tips. Even if fixing thin traces, I still use my fat D52, lol.

As for thin wire for trace repair: I just pull strands from various regular wires. If I want something very thin, I use the wires out of audio cables. Those tend to have very fine stuff in there.

[stj]

the function of small tips is not to solder fine parts, it's to avoid other stuff nearby.

[Dannyx]

Originally Posted by momaka

Even if fixing thin traces, I still use my fat D52, lol.

That's a bit barbaric You must have an amazing hand then, like those guys balancing eggs and opening bottles with bulldozers

Originally Posted by momaka

As for thin wire for trace repair: I just pull strands from various regular wires. If I want something very thin, I use the wires out of audio cables. Those tend to have very fine stuff in there.

I tried that, but the thinnest cable I had (not audio, indeed) had strands that were still too thick, so I turned to that extra thin stuff on Ali. A couple of days ago, mostly out of curiosity, I ripped open a cellphone buzzer which was dead anyway and its coil wire was more like what I would attempt to fix those traces with. I also tried tinning it and luckily it tinned like I expected, with a little bit of persuasion. I didn't save it though because my spools are on the way.

[momaka]

Originally Posted by Dannyx

That's a bit barbaric You must have an amazing hand then, like those guys balancing eggs and opening bottles with bulldozers

Eh. Yes and no.
I have terrible coordination when it comes to sports.
But for soldering and doing precise work, I have fairly steady hand. It's really the long nails that help me do the fine work. Tweezers work for certain stuff. But when I want to solder 0812 SMD parts, I simply place it where I want with the tweezers, then use a finger nail to press on the part down on the PCB, then touch it on one side with a sharp (but not thin!) soldering iron tip... then on the other... and done. Same with soldering wires to fine traces.
Not using microscope or magnifying lens either... though now that I've made it to the 30 YO bandwagon, my eyesight for close range is starting to feel a little awkward compared to 5 years ago.

[stj]

0812??
we be using 0603 as a minimum and usually 0402 these days.

[Dannyx]

Originally Posted by momaka

I have terrible coordination when it comes to sports.

Pfffftt, yeah I've never been into sports to begin with, so if I were to try and pick one up now, it'd probably be golf or air hockey or something
However, I feel you: I suck at what I call "motor skills" and by that I mean stuff which others seem to do perfectly, but I can't, like juggle, walk on their hands or doing backflips...

Originally Posted by momaka

But for soldering and doing precise work, I have fairly steady hand

Ditto, though it's starting to deteriorate, as I've been doing less and less of it lately and more and more "physical" work instead, like running wires, stripping them and installing alarm systems which seems to have become this joint's main focus ATM, to the point where it's sending us techs out of the shop to do it due to never enough employees to keep up with the enormous amount of sites they took up

Originally Posted by momaka

Not using microscope or magnifying lens either...

I don't have much choice in that matter, because I don't have a microscope anyway. I do use an assortment of magnifiers, from handheld ones, to a larger LED one with an articulating arm mount. Sometimes it's just NOT enough and I crave for a microscope....

[momaka]

Originally Posted by stj

0812??
we be using 0603 as a minimum and usually 0402 these days.

Wait, are we talking metric here?
... Because I always refer to metric.

0812 metric, if I am not mistaken, is about the size of those small caps near the PCI-E connector on GPUs. I know cell phones and other similar portable devices probably have even smaller SMDs in them. But I don't work on those.

Originally Posted by Dannyx

Pfffftt, yeah I've never been into sports to begin with, so if I were to try and pick one up now, it'd probably be golf or air hockey or something

I bike somewhat frequently. But I don't do it as a sport or anything extreme (like mountain biking or whatever.) Just use it to get to the grocery store and get exercise at the same time.
I also used to ski, but.. meh, that was fun when I was a kid. I don't find it fun anymore to wake up early with eager to go onto a cold snowy mountain.

Originally Posted by Dannyx

Ditto, though it's starting to deteriorate, as I've been doing less and less of it lately and more and more "physical" work

Same here. My daily job now is mostly driving (about 50% of the time). Not much use for my electronics skills either, so I am starting to forget stuff now.

Originally Posted by Dannyx

like running wires, stripping them and installing alarm systems which seems to have become this joint's main focus ATM, to the point where it's sending us techs out of the shop to do it due to never enough employees to keep up with the enormous amount of sites they took up

Maybe it's better off that you shop is doing this now instead of "fixing" people's computers. From the the posts you've written (and pictures you showed) of your colleague's works, maybe some of these techs should stick to something simpler, like installing alarms, and leave the electronics stuff for someone else.

[Dannyx]

Originally Posted by momaka

I bike somewhat frequently. But I don't do it as a sport or anything extreme (like mountain biking or whatever.) Just use it to get to the grocery store and get exercise at the same time.

I do that every day to get to work and back (you may have seen my post about building a battery pack for my Bafang...I start to sound like Louis now saying that). This is the first summer I do this and I'll try to keep it up as long as the weather allows it. I can't possibly imagine biking in sub-zero temps when my car is right there in the parking lot I don't do it for a particular reason, other than the fun of it and because it's a good workout...and maybe to cut back on some of the costs of gas now that I think of it. I'm not overweight either, quite the opposite in fact, coming in at a laughable 54Kgs which I don't care about, so there's no immediate reason why I got my Bafang

Originally Posted by momaka

so I am starting to forget stuff now.

That's what I fear the most: I fear that one day I may have to do something I knew how to do perfectly a while ago, but wouldn't remember how. Sure goes to show how easily you forget stuff when you don't use it. I used to know exactly what some of the most common defects of TVs were just by looking at them and could even tell what part was faulty before even opening it up and what board they used, say the Vestel 17mb82S firmware which liked to crash often, or the Samsung D series having NAND issues (???...see, told you I might've forgot ), but now I'd need a refresher for some of this stuff if I had to do it again in a pinch, to the rather embarrassing point where I'd have to read some of my own threads here

Originally Posted by momaka

Maybe it's better off that you shop is doing this now instead of "fixing" people's computers. From the the posts you've written (and pictures you showed) of your colleague's works, maybe some of these techs should stick to something simpler, like installing alarms, and leave the electronics stuff for someone else.

The sad part is that it works in the complete opposite way to what you said: the chaps who get to "play techies" are the older ones who no longer pull field duty, the average age being 50-60+ - it's them who do stuff like I've shown you and us younger ones who get all the field work...which I must admit is not the worst I've done and in the long run I kinda like the idea of setting up alarm systems, planning out the sensors and how they should trigger and the timings and all that, plus it seems to become a profitable field to be in lately, especially once you start doing private installs and kick it up a notch with more advanced setups. You've got nothing to worry about, since all the equipment is new and you're certain it will work first time, as opposed to doing any kind of repair where you're never sure it can be fixed, or worse, it breaks some more and you get yelled at. Still, I do get very sad at times, thinking that my hands are always dirty, I never sit down, I'm always hot and sweaty (no puns intended ) while I should be at the shop tinkering with stuff like Louis....though our country, much less our city, will probably never see the same demand for laptop repairs like Louis does. We mostly get to fix junk, so from that standpoint, yes, you're right - F-it to hell and let others do it...pros and cons just like with everything in life....

[Curious.George]

Originally Posted by Dannyx

That's what I fear the most: I fear that one day I may have to do something I knew how to do perfectly a while ago, but wouldn't remember how. Sure goes to show how easily you forget stuff when you don't use it.

You don't want to remember "solutions" but, rather, how to GET to those solutions. I.e., troubleshooting skills instead of "replace C104".

This is where many schools "let down" their students -- they just want them to commit solutions to memory instead of teaching them about how to GET to those solutions, by deduction. My first boss taught me the difference and applied it universally in his hiring decisions: "I don't want guys that I can put to work TODAY (with a "current" skillset) but, rather, guys that will be able to work TOMORROW (learning the skills that we don't yet know will be needed!)!"

[sam_sam_sam]

Originally Posted by Curious.George

You don't want to remember "solutions" but, rather, how to GET to those solutions.


This is where many schools "let down" their students -- they just want them to commit solutions to memory instead of teaching them about how to GET to those solutions, by deduction. My first boss taught me the difference and applied it universally in his hiring decisions: "I don't want guys that I can put to work TODAY (with a "current" skillset) but, rather, guys that will be able to work TOMORROW (learning the skills that we don't yet know will be needed!)!"

There is a lot of truth to this

I have some people at work that are very mechaniclay incline but they have no troubleshooting skills at all but if I explain why it is done a certain way then they understand it for the most part but they do not understand how to do troubleshooting skills and where to being

This is why if you have troubleshooting skills you can call tech support and get the information needed even if you have never worked on this type of device you just have to understand how it suppose to work

[stj]

Originally Posted by Curious.George

You don't want to remember "solutions" but, rather, how to GET to those solutions.

that's why i never post repair logs.
you get too many people thinking symptom=solution and go doing expensive or risky stuff that has no effect.