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Old 09-19-2020, 11:42 AM   #1
jayjr1105
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Default Modern Samxon and Teapo caps much better these days?

I pull a buch of (Teapo, Samxon, Ltec, Taicon, etc.) caps from older power supplies and they always check out very low ESR and capacitance in spec. Are chinese caps much better than they used to be?
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Old 09-20-2020, 09:28 AM   #2
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Default Re: Modern Samxon and Teapo caps much better these days?

These brands are Taiwanese companies, where pure mainland Chinese caps are ChangX, ChongX, Xicon, Aishi...

Refrain from talking cross strait politics.
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Old 09-20-2020, 11:07 AM   #3
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Default Re: Modern Samxon and Teapo caps much better these days?

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Originally Posted by bestsystem View Post
These brands are Taiwanese companies, where pure mainland Chinese caps are ChangX, ChongX, Xicon, Aishi...

Refrain from talking cross strait politics.
Interesting. So are Taiwanese caps pretty good these days? Where can you even buy them?
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Old 09-20-2020, 11:24 AM   #4
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Default Re: Modern Samxon and Teapo caps much better these days?

I would say no, for example Samxon (Man Yue) is based in China.
But both CapXon and Fuhjyyu are based in Taiwan.
I would rate Samxon a few notches above those two!
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: Modern Samxon and Teapo caps much better these days?

if i see samxon, capxon, taicon/ teapo now, I wont hurry to replace it, also dare to gamble on Aishi but not others.

I have some bulged fujicon caps ( power decoupling & speaker coupling) in my 7 years old AA battery powered Tecsun radio, never exposed to any heat more than body temp, good job!
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Old 09-20-2020, 09:16 PM   #6
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Default Re: Modern Samxon and Teapo caps much better these days?

Some series of Samxon were known to be problematic (GF was the worst). The GA, GC, and GD Ultra-low ESR caps back in the days were great cost-effective replacements for failed motherboard caps....but have those series have been out of production for nearly a decade now.
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Old 12-16-2020, 10:57 AM   #7
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Default Re: Modern Samxon and Teapo caps much better these days?

I haven't been on this forum in years, but, now that I work in power adapter design, with a factory (wholly owned by the company) in China, here's my input:

Samxon, Aishi, Teapo, and Jianghai are quite solid, particularly if you use their higher end caps.

For Samxon: SK and SH. For Aishi: RJ and RZ, and so on...

We've done some accelerated life testing with these caps and have seen no issues. Most important part is to use adequately rated parts in the first place, of course.

In general, I think it's less about brand (per say) and more about BOM cost targets for the product. Naturally, if a company is trying to hit some absurdly low cost target, they will first reach for the lower cost brand (i.e. switch from Japanese to Chinese), and then may even downgrade within the brand to a worse series (i.e. From Samxon SK to GF).

In my opinion, Chinese companies are perfectly capable of making caps as good as Japanese companies, and for cheaper. But often times, when companies are looking for cheap, they just keep digging deeper in the barrel until they've landed on some garbage. So, when they fail, and we replace them, we might want to say "Samxon...Chinese crap!", but it was probably just improperly specified to start with.

My two cents.

Edit: Holy smokes, I haven't posted in 9 years? Where has the time gone?

Last edited by TheLaw; 12-16-2020 at 11:02 AM..
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Old 12-16-2020, 12:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: Modern Samxon and Teapo caps much better these days?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topcat View Post
Some series of Samxon were known to be problematic (GF was the worst). The GA, GC, and GD Ultra-low ESR caps back in the days were great cost-effective replacements for failed motherboard caps....but have those series have been out of production for nearly a decade now.
And I still have new ones from a decade ago. Still use them when needed too.
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Old 12-16-2020, 12:46 PM   #9
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Default Re: Modern Samxon and Teapo caps much better these days?

how many japanese company's still make japanese caps?

Panasonic has shifted factories to malasia among other places.
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Old 12-16-2020, 02:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: Modern Samxon and Teapo caps much better these days?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
how many japanese company's still make japanese caps?

Panasonic has shifted factories to malasia among other places.
Good point. I'm pretty confident I've seen bags from Mouser from Nichicon with Malaysia country of origin. Same for Nippon Chemi-con. I haven't seen a made in Japan Panasonic in about 10 years.

Confirmed below:

https://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/c...m_isots01.html

https://www.chemi-con.co.jp/e/company/bases.html

The enthusiast PC market is still beating the "WE ONLY USE JAPANESE CAPS" drum, somewhat ironically, given that half of them are not made in Japan anyway. The whole thing leaves me feeling a little weird. On one hand, it's true that the Japanese manufacturers have built a solid reputation over many years, whereas the Chinese manufacturers have a more spotty track record. But still feel like there's some baked-in subtle racism (country-ism?) there.

I think advertising "Only Japanese caps!" is sort of the equivalent of slapping a "Fair Trade" sticker on coffee. Keep it simple for the consumer.

Too much politics?
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Old 12-16-2020, 04:42 PM   #11
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Default Re: Modern Samxon and Teapo caps much better these days?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLaw View Post
Good point. I'm pretty confident I've seen bags from Mouser from Nichicon with Malaysia country of origin. Same for Nippon Chemi-con. I haven't seen a made in Japan Panasonic in about 10 years.

Confirmed below:

https://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/c...m_isots01.html

https://www.chemi-con.co.jp/e/company/bases.html

The enthusiast PC market is still beating the "WE ONLY USE JAPANESE CAPS" drum, somewhat ironically, given that half of them are not made in Japan anyway. The whole thing leaves me feeling a little weird. On one hand, it's true that the Japanese manufacturers have built a solid reputation over many years, whereas the Chinese manufacturers have a more spotty track record. But still feel like there's some baked-in subtle racism (country-ism?) there.

I think advertising "Only Japanese caps!" is sort of the equivalent of slapping a "Fair Trade" sticker on coffee. Keep it simple for the consumer.

Too much politics?
I've bought RUbycon's from digikey periodically in smaller quantities, so they're not in their original packaging....however, the bill of lading that digikey provides has the 'country of origin' on every part....Rubycons are now chinese.

Ohh BTW....Nice seeing you again!
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Old 12-20-2020, 03:54 PM   #12
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Default Re: Modern Samxon and Teapo caps much better these days?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topcat View Post
I've bought RUbycon's from digikey periodically in smaller quantities, so they're not in their original packaging....however, the bill of lading that digikey provides has the 'country of origin' on every part....Rubycons are now chinese.

Ohh BTW....Nice seeing you again!
The list of Rubycon production sites can be found here: http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/profile/production.html
They have 10 production sites in Japan, 1 in Indonesia. They don't make any capacitors in China. All the Rubycon capacitors I have bought from Digikey have Japan as the country of origin.
Also, "Japanese Capacitor" seems to mean the capacitor is a Japanese brand, it doesn't have to be made in Japan. For example if you buy Japanese brand capacitors that are made in Malaysia, they are still high quality and maintain the quality standards of the company.
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Old 12-20-2020, 05:21 PM   #13
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Default Re: Modern Samxon and Teapo caps much better these days?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capacitor Connoisseur View Post
The list of Rubycon production sites can be found here: http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/profile/production.html
They have 10 production sites in Japan, 1 in Indonesia. They don't make any capacitors in China. All the Rubycon capacitors I have bought from Digikey have Japan as the country of origin.
Also, "Japanese Capacitor" seems to mean the capacitor is a Japanese brand, it doesn't have to be made in Japan. For example if you buy Japanese brand capacitors that are made in Malaysia, they are still high quality and maintain the quality standards of the company.
I've always been a fan of Rubycon, had good luck with them...but for a while, MCZ's were dying awfully young. I didn't save the bill of lading from digikey anymore (threw it away), but there was no mistake it said China....it caught me by surprise, and I double-checked what I was seeing. I'll just write that one off as an 'error' and hope I never see it again. If I do, I'll gladly scan it and post it.
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Old 12-26-2020, 09:30 PM   #14
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Default Re: Modern Samxon and Teapo caps much better these days?

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Originally Posted by jayjr1105 View Post
I pull a buch of (Teapo, Samxon, Ltec, Taicon, etc.) caps from older power supplies and they always check out very low ESR and capacitance in spec. Are chinese caps much better than they used to be?
Samxon and Taicon in general are just better, IMO... though with Samxon, it really depends which series we are talking about. As was noted by others, the GF series are pretty terrible. I've also seen a few of their other series failed - namely GS (which is GP 85C) and SF (in hot LCD monitors.) GS is actually not a bad series, but they are rather sensitive to heat. Equivalent 85C Japanese GP series tend to last much longer in same applications.

As for Taicon, that's probably the only brand I've seen do almost as well as Japanese capacitors in power supplies - even in applications where these were right next to failed Ltec, Teapo, and CapXon. All in all, I don't see Taicon failed too often.

On that note, let's talk about Ltec: they are quite garbage, IMO. I see the LZG and LZP series break down after 5-10 years in PSU use all the time. Typical failure mode is increasing capacitance (increasing internal leakage) until electrolyte eats the foil away, produces gas, and makes the cap vent... after which is just a matter of time before the electrolyte boils out and the cap looses capacitance / goes high ESR. Now, you might say that 5-10 years doesn't seem so bad... and honestly speaking, it probably isn't considering they are cheaper caps. But from what I've been finding when recapping 5/10/15 year old Delta and HiPro PSUs is that Ltec caps are pretty much a guaranteed to failure. Teapo SC series are in a similar boat.

That said, let's do Teapo next. My personal observation is that they are hit-or-miss, depending on the series. Seems that their SY series are actually not that bad at all. But SC, on the other hand, seem to break down in a similar fashion to Ltec, as mentioned above. SM is kind of similar to SC, but sometimes may do better. SEK series are general purpose 105C caps... but they somehow seem to break down similar to SC series, too, though a bit slower (and quicker without use.) Compared to equivalent Japanese 10C GP series, they don't last anywhere near as long.

As for CapXon... do we really need to talk about them?
I think they are pretty bad overall, regardless of series. I do have a few very old KM series, and somehow they are still in spec and haven't begun to break down. But those are the very few exceptions. Almost everything else I run into with CapXon needs a recap eventually. So I suggest to not trust them and replace when the opportunity is there.

And Fuhjyyu... kind of similar to CapXon, but a bit more hit-or-miss. That is, they seem to be a miss for the most part, but occasionally will have a batch that doesn't fail. Seems their specs are a bit over-stated too. If treated very gently / underloaded, they might do OK - at least that's what I've seen from the few good ones I've pulled from PSUs. On that note, it seems that CWT PSUs always kill them. So I don't know if application there also has to do with their failure. All in all, my suggestion is similar to the one for CapXon: don't trust them and replace when possible. But if you want to play your luck with them: cool them well and make sure they are very lightly loaded.

Last but not least: OST. I think with OST it's the same as with Teapo: hit-or-miss for most series, but a few series are OK. Namely, I find the RLS series to do fairly well in PSUs. But RLP series - not so much. Biostar and a few other motherboard brands used to use RLP series quite a bit. On that note, all I have to say is that the older RLP series seem to fail less often than the newer RLP, but that could have just been my luck / observation. Then there's RLG - the general purpose 105C series. I see them used in PSUs sometimes, but they don't do well there (or anywhere with more heat or high ripple current.) Put them on a linear circuit, though, and they should work pretty well and for a long time. Then there's the RLX series - meant to be ultra-low ESR for motherboards. I find these to be quite unstable, though, so avoid / replace them. And finally, the RLZ series (found on the CPU VRM of some motherboards)... no, just replace them. They will only be bad news down the line.

Last edited by momaka; 12-26-2020 at 09:38 PM..
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