Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

[stj]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

when company's get prison sentences instead of fines things will change.
(either that or we will start offing the bastards first like indian farmers have been dealing with monsatan reps!)

[Ascaris]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

The only advantage I can think of that Win 10 has is DirectX 12. It doesn't really matter now, as few if any games use it, but if it is anything close to being as good as they say, it would be a valuable thing to have indeed.

The rest of Windows 10 is just appalling. It's an unfinished, ugly piece of spyware/adware masquerading as an OS.

Windows 8 was a flop because it tried to be the one OS to rule them all... everything from smart phones to tablets to high performance desktops would all run the same Windows. It's an absurd idea to expect a hand held touch screen device with no keyboard or mouse and a small screen to run the same OS as a traditional PC, but Microsoft has some catching up to do in the phone market. They see the PC market is in decline, and they are afraid of being the next AOL. Once a company large and capitalized well enough to get top billing in a merger with Time-Warner, it's nothing now. They were a buggy whip seller in a world that no longer needed buggy whips.

MS is 7 or 8 years behind Apple and Google in the mobile device market, and they know that just offering another "also ran" competitor to the big two is not likely to work. If they can leverage their PC near-monopoly while it still matters, maybe they can pry their way in. The result of that line of thinking was Windows 8.

Windows 8 had little reason to exist as a product other than to get people used to the cute little tiles and get them invested in Metro apps on their desktop that would also run on their next phone or tablet. It's nothing more than a piece of adware for Windows mobile devices, only you're still expected to pay full price for it. (For full disclosure, I have never used 8; this description is based on what I have read about 8).

8.1 was supposed to help a lot with the disjointed Jekyll and Hyde Windows 8 experience, but a lot of people say it did not go far enough, and by that time, "Windows 8" was a toxic name for a product, much as "Windows Vista" was in its day. Microsoft could improve 8 all they wanted, but people would still avoid it.

So now we have 10. After all of the negative feedback MS got with 8, how its "I'm a phone... no, I'm a desktop PC" dual nature ruined it, you would think Microsoft would get the idea. That is, of course, unless they see their plan to use their PC dominance to push people into their mobile ecosystem as so critical that it cannot be abandoned. Apparently, they do, because 10 is merely a second attempt at doing that, rather than a repudiation of the idea as silly and unworkable.

Windows 10 is, as far as I can tell, even worse than 8 in terms of being adware disguised as an OS. After creating two backups of my 7 install on two separate external hard drives, I performed the upgrade to 10.

It was pretty uneventful, and it did a pretty good job of keeping my settings and everything configured as I had it before. The look was raw and unfinished, though, and its adware nature showed itself within minutes, with an ad for Microsoft Office in the Action center. There was also an icon for OneDrive in the system tray and another in the navigation pane in Windows explorer... and since I don't have OneDrive or even a Microsoft account, there's really no need for them to be there, except for advertising the presence of OneDrive. The unremovable Xbox "app" is another ad. Then there's the ads that appear in the start menu, and the way that Bing is preferred by the system for searches (when just about everyone uses Google)... this entire OS is nothing but a massive piece of adware.

That doesn't even cover the ads you get (like others have described) if you try to restore free Windows favorites like Solitaire. More ads! Just what PC users wanted-- more advertising! And that's just the beginning; Microsoft has already shown us they cannot be trusted to use Windows Update only for things that benefit the user, with the "GWX" adware they pushed on 7 and 8, and the unwanted download and even self-triggered upgrade to 10 if the person has the updates set to "auto," which is obviously a bad choice given Microsoft's recent actions. Of course, if you get 10, you no longer have that choice; Microsoft will decide what will be installed on your PC.

Then there's the whole spying bit, and the sinister EULA that basically deeds your entire hard drive contents to Microsoft to use in any way they wish. I don't get how people think that noting that Microsoft is not the first one to do this makes any difference. Windows 10 is the first Windows to do this, and that's the discussion at hand. Whether Android or iOS or Mac OSX do it is something to discuss elsewhere. What concerns me is whether Windows does it, not whether anyone else does.

I did try to block all of the IPs associated with the Windows "telemetry" at the router level, but it still went through. It turns out that my router only obeys the IP blocking list with unencrypted data. HTTPS whistles right through, unimpeded, on my Netgear WNDR3700 (which is currently out of service as it awaits new caps).

I don't have a smartphone. I don't want one, but if I did, it would not be Windows, and it would certainly not be Apple. I loathe Apple and their approach to the iDevices, and their snooty attitude and overpriced hardware. That leaves Google... no treat either, but at least Android is so hackable that you can get rid of whatever crap is in there that you don't want. I do have an Android tablet, but it is wifi-only, and I use it very little compared to my trusty "real" computers, which are still vastly superior in every way except for portability. Microsoft, you're barking up the wrong tree trying to push that stuff on me. My PC runs programs, not apps. If there was a way to completely uninstall the "app" crapp from Windows 10, that would increase 10's appeal greatly.

Some people I've debated this with have said, "If you don't like the Universal/Metro apps, just don't use them." I wish that were really an option! They've sprinkled that app garbage in all over the OS. Windows 10 now has a "settings" app in addition to the regular control panel. Some things are duplicated, and can have the settings changed in either place... some are "settings" only, and a lot are still "control panel" only. How do you know where to go to change something? Who knows?

Eventually, I've read, the Control Panel will go bye-bye, and the Settings app will do it all. Why, though? Why does anything on a desktop PC have to be done in an "app" designed for a phone? Why is the terrible replacement for Windows Media Player an app? Why is the picture viewer an app? Why is the personalization menu an app? Since 10 is an evolution of older Windows versions and not a from-scratch rewrite, it means they had to remove those already-working native Win32/64 bits (or at least disable them... I'd say the odds are good that the actual code is still there) and replace them with apps. Ugly, flat apps that don't at all look like they belong-- they don't match the regular Windows theme at all. It's not seamless at all; I am very aware when some piece of the OS comes up and it turns out to be an app.

The only thing I can think of as a reason for this is that Microsoft has already predicted people will want to exterminate the "apps" part of 10, the same way they wanted to get IE out of Windows, and so Microsoft is pulling the same trick-- building it right in so they can claim it's not removable because it is a core part of the OS.

Windows 10 may come at no additional cost to users of 7 or 8, but it is not free. I went back to 7, and unless 10 improves a LOT, I'm not migrating to 10. I can't even imagine MS having the gall to charge money for this adware/spyware garbage.

As for the person asking about web browsing and tracking: I use Firefox, with several addons: Self-Destructing cookies (which accepts all cookies, but deletes them as soon as I leave the site. I have a few sites set to destroy the cookies when I close the tab instead of leave the site (Disqus discussions don't work otherwise) and a few others to never delete (whitelist), but those are few.

I also use BetterPrivacy, which deletes Flash LSOs, which are like cookies, but the normal cookie deletion methods don't affect them. Unfortunately, BetterPrivacy is not compatible with Firefox 42 yet, so Flash is out of the question until that changes. I already have Flash set to be blocked by default on all sites (unless I allow it), and I don't whitelist any of them. Until BP is updated, Flash will never be allowed.

Additionally, I use uBlock Origin, an adblocker that is much easier on resources than the more famous Adblock Plus. It shuts down most of the tracking scripts and other such things. There's also NoScript, which is an even more effective script blocker, but it broke just about every web page I visited until I whitelisted many, many scripts, and it got to be too tedious. Better to let the little buggers think they're setting tracking cookies that will persist and have them deleted as soon as I leave the site.

My ISP (like most) uses dynamic IPs, so I can't be tracked by IP address. My IP changes frequently, and while a government agency could subpoena my ISP to tell them which IPs I had and when, your ordinary advertiser or tracker on the web won't have access to that information.

I also have never had a Facebook profile (I like the guy who has that F Facebook avatar-- right on), no Twitter, no LinkedIn, none of that.

There are some other things too, but the site is already complaining that this post is too long, so I will simply leave it with this. The tracking in modern society can't be stopped completely, but that does not mean it's not worth trying. At least Microsoft, Google, etc., can be limited in their ability to turn me into a product they sell to their real customers, the advertisers.

[lookimback]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

You forgot to mention it's a resource hog too. My fan runs continuously with 8 or 10. If I run Linux, the fan never even comes on, and the same is true of my Win 7 machine.

[shovenose]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

You forgot to mention it's a resource hog too. My fan runs continuously with 8 or 10. If I run Linux, the fan never even comes on, and the same is true of my Win 7 machine.

First time I've heard this complaint. Every single computer that went from 7 to 10 ran better, with the exception of customers not removing the anti-virus. It seems every anti-virus has problems with Windows 10 and makes it run like crap.

Typing this on a Dell Latitude E4300 with a Core2Duo and it's using about 10%-30% CPU with about a hundred tabs open in Chrome.

[lookimback]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

I have an HP Pavilion G7 with an AMD A8-4500M. It always has ran hot. I keep it cleaned out, so I know it's not dust. It can be sitting idol and the fan will run. With it idol and 1 Chrome tab open, it's at 8-10% CPU. If I swirl my finger around the mouse pad, it will shoot up to 25-35% and the fan will switch to high speed. Googled it before, seems to be common. I'd have to say, my first experience with an AMD machine isn't so good. I think I'll go permanently back to Intel after this.

[lookimback]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

I just spotted something. Haven't touched it in 5 minutes and suddenly it shoots up to 100%. Something called WMI Provider Host is the culprit.

[stj]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

mouse thing is not an AMD thing or even a windows thing - totally normal.

as for the WMI thing:
WMIPrvSE.exe
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22WMI+Pro...t-wt&kv=1&kh=1
http://www.windowsbbs.com/windows-8/...ing-100-a.html

[lookimback]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

I figured that. I've located the problem process. It's HP Software Framework WMI Service. Hpqwmiex.exe
I get a bunch of errors on this in Event Viewer....WMI Activity>Operational log

[stj]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

kill it.
anything from HP, Compaq, Toshiba etc is usually just pointless crap or spyware.

[lookimback]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

That's what I'm going to do too.

[retiredcaps]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

kill it.
anything from HP, Compaq, Toshiba etc is usually just pointless crap or spyware.

When I get computers to fix from friends and family, I first run malwarebytes at least twice to get rid of all the viruses/malware/pups. Afterwards, I go to the uninstall panel and start removing all the OEM bloatware and anything else that hasn't been used for more than 12 months.

BTW, another reason for me never to buy Dell ...

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/1...breaking-https

"The rogue eDellRoot certificate is dated two months after the Superfish debacle happened. Furthermore, Dell used the Superfish debacle to their advantage, promoting the security of their own products. Since Dell clearly knew that installing a root certificate—à la Superfish—was a bad idea, why did they make the exact same blunder?"

[kaboom]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

You never want to run "special" or "customized" winblows installs from OEMs. As true as it was in the late 90s, it's damning today...

HP "spyvisor" and Dell backdoor-as-driver-update are nothing new. Again, first priority with name brand shitboxes is a clean windows install from an actual disk/image; never from a "nokia-phreaking" copy of XP, for example...


The AOL mentallity needs to end, right now. "Ooh- updates, yay!" Uh-huh, dumbass- that's how your naivete-as-trust is exploited.

"B-but updates, it needs to be updated!" - If anyone falls for that, repeatedly and after multiple explanations, they can get lost. The worst bunch- they'll fuck up your best work/install, then blame YOU after they got click happy and trashed it. And want you to "fix for free."

I don't even need to get into the I-h8te-ten issues...

[lookimback]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

Got rid of the first 3 WMI-Activity errors. It was HPiece-O-Shit Support Assistant. Now I see that it wasn't just the one thing. I have about 60 WMI-Activity errors, at least a half dozen different PIDs. The one PID has about 20 instances, but all different service names. I don't have any more time tonight. I'll start tackling them tomorrow. Right now, cooking pumpkin pie is more important.

[lookimback]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

I'm pretty sure it isn't malware/spyware, or viruses. I'm meticulous about keeping Windows and my AV programs up to date, and I never open a download without scanning first.

[reaper57]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

You never want to run "special" or "customized" winblows installs from OEMs. As true as it was in the late 90s, it's damning today...

HP "spyvisor" and Dell backdoor-as-driver-update are nothing new. Again, first priority with name brand shitboxes is a clean windows install from an actual disk/image; never from a "nokia-phreaking" copy of XP, for example...


The AOL mentallity needs to end, right now. "Ooh- updates, yay!" Uh-huh, dumbass- that's how your naivete-as-trust is exploited.

"B-but updates, it needs to be updated!" - If anyone falls for that, repeatedly and after multiple explanations, they can get lost. The worst bunch- they'll fuck up your best work/install, then blame YOU after they got click happy and trashed it. And want you to "fix for free."

I don't even need to get into the I-h8te-ten issues...

That's why we don't give warranty on software repairs (with some exceptions), at the place I work at.

[kc8adu]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

had that on a onsite job.
system was dragging its ass and i found several hp utilities were to blame.
since all it was for was working a sage50 database on another box i wiped and reloaded.no more huge ? in the tray nagging you about whatever..
doubled its speed.who replaced my computer?nope same box just took out the trash.

[kaboom]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

had that on a onsite job.
system was dragging its ass and i found several hp utilities were to blame.

Was any of that related to the bloat/scam/malware disguised as "printer drivers," or just the usual preload stuff?

since all it was for was working a sage50 database on another box i wiped and reloaded.no more huge ? in the tray nagging you about whatever..
doubled its speed.who replaced my computer?nope same box just took out the trash.

People (sheeple?) almost expect computers to slow over time, y'know, because they "get old."

[kc8adu]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

didnt analyze it.a fresh load without the factory junk is always better and can be done in nearly the same time.

[goontron]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

People (sheeple?) almost expect computers to slow over time, y'know, because they "get old."

Then i install FreeBSD on the "Old, Slow" Core2 and its flying!
EDIT: Post 2,555

[momaka]

Re: Windows 10 benefits - Are there any?

The only advantage I can think of that Win 10 has is DirectX 12.

That's what I was thinking too. But I am not a gamer (not a "modern" one, anyways), so I don't know how much that matters, if at all.

The only that matters to me is that my PC does what *I* tell it to do. I actually couldn't care less about the whole spying aspect of Windows. But if my PC starts updating on its own and changing things without my permission, that's when I have a problem. And because Windows 8 and 10 seem to be designed that way from the core (especially Windows 10), I am certainly not going to touch it. Not for any proper work or storing any of my data that I consider important.

Also, lookimback brings a valid point - all of that spyware stuff likely does slow down your PC, even if it does "feel" faster. So that's another reason to say no to Windows 8/10.

Then there's the whole spying bit, and the sinister EULA that basically deeds your entire hard drive contents to Microsoft to use in any way they wish. I don't get how people think that noting that Microsoft is not the first one to do this makes any difference. Windows 10 is the first Windows to do this, and that's the discussion at hand. Whether Android or iOS or Mac OSX do it is something to discuss elsewhere. What concerns me is whether Windows does it, not whether anyone else does.

100000000000000000% agree with you.
Just because Apple and Google spy on you doesn't make it right for Microsoft to do it as well. It ticks me off when people use that logic, "ooo, it's okay if MS does it. Others started doing this a long time ago."

I did try to block all of the IPs associated with the Windows "telemetry" at the router level, but it still went through. It turns out that my router only obeys the IP blocking list with unencrypted data. HTTPS whistles right through, unimpeded, on my Netgear WNDR3700

Why-o-why am I not surprised about this!

I loathe Apple and their approach to the iDevices, and their snooty attitude and overpriced hardware.

I think this is who MS has been trying to impersonate for a long time now. And it's definitely noticeable ever since Windows 8 came out.

My PC runs programs, not apps.

But "apps" are the new fad these days. Don't have them? -Not cool dude!

Eventually, I've read, the Control Panel will go bye-bye, and the Settings app will do it all. Why, though? Why does anything on a desktop PC have to be done in an "app" designed for a phone? Why is the terrible replacement for Windows Media Player an app? Why is the picture viewer an app? Why is the personalization menu an app?

Because! (*blank expression*)
It's just like trying to argue with the people who support Solar Freakin roadways (look it up and then see EEVlog videos #632, 681, and 743 - hilarity guaranteed ).

I also have never had a Facebook profile (I like the guy who has that F Facebook avatar-- right on), no Twitter, no LinkedIn, none of that.

That would be stj . If I didn't have my avatar for as long as I did, I would have changed it to that too. I had Facebook for about a year or so in high school (about 10 years ago), but I didn't like it and so deleted it. If Facebook "fell-trough" with their agreement, my data should have been removed a long time ago... but I highly doubt it

People (sheeple?) almost expect computers to slow over time, y'know, because they "get old."

I've heard that same verse so many times as well.

ooo, my PC is slow because it's already X years old. I heard the new Microsoft runs much better.
Me (thinking): new Microsoft?! lolwhat (it's true, I've heard this many times before)
Then I do a minimalist install like on all of my PCs. The old PC is new again. No scratch that - better than new if it was an OEM install by Dell, HP, and the like.

Also, I had one friend in college just a year ago, who insisted that I had "hacked" my PC (stock Dell Optiplex 170L with 1.25 GB or RAM ), because it ran so fast.
The best, however, is when one kid thought my Dell Latitude C600 laptop had an SSD in it, because it cold-booted so fast . He couldn't believe it when I told him that it actually has only a 3400 RPM PATA HDD . (For those of you who don't know, that laptop has a Pentium 3 CPU @ 700 MHz and 512 MB of RAM.)