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Old 10-26-2015, 08:44 AM   #1
Rob Northen
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Default Samxon capacitor quality discussion (spin-off from OCZ Bug Zapper thread)

EDIT by mods: I have spun-off the Samxon discussion from this other thread here so it does not end up further off topic.
So please continue the discussion here instead


Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemot View Post
Yo next time you let me know for Samxons RS 3300/16 or Chemi-Con KZN 3300/16 in D10, that thing you did there is terrible and you'll have some serious fun getting those cables back.

My caps also usually cost fraction of the price you buy them from DK and similar. This also seems to be the case of my KZN which are expensive but still cheaper than those Nichicon sausages you bought. Plus they have longer life. So why you actually get those when they are worse in every possible way?
I think SgtRock is a big boy, and know what he is doing.
Asking people to use Samxon, now that is terrible!

Last edited by Per Hansson; 10-27-2015 at 02:19 PM..
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:39 PM   #2
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Default Re: OCZ 700 Watt Bug Zapper Recap & Repair

Another I-know-shit-about-Samxon-yet-I-am-being-clever. Mister, rather be silent thank you very much.

It has been sufficiently proven that beside couple bad series as a whole (GF, GK) Samxon caps are adequate to japanese capacitors. I personally have those RS 3300/16 running for at least 40000 hours at about 60 °C, mabye more (haven't really measured internal temperature but the air is hot as it partially sucks waste power from the case). Actually, I write from this unit right now. Maybe some day I will find the time to upgrade my FX500SE sample, or get some better unit from review, and after swapping them crack this ELT400AWT open and show you how fine the caps still are. Next year they will definitelly be over their rated life at 75 °C and over half the life at 65 °C.

Milions of combined hours have been run on these RS 3300/16, first on Joe Los (Big Popes) and than mine. Never heard about single cap failing.
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Last edited by Behemot; 10-26-2015 at 12:40 PM..
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Old 10-26-2015, 01:22 PM   #3
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Default Re: OCZ 700 Watt Bug Zapper Recap & Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemot View Post
Another I-know-shit-about-Samxon-yet-I-am-being-clever. Mister, rather be silent thank you very much.

It has been sufficiently proven that beside couple bad series as a whole (GF, GK) Samxon caps are adequate to japanese capacitors. I personally have those RS 3300/16 running for at least 40000 hours at about 60 °C, mabye more (haven't really measured internal temperature but the air is hot as it partially sucks waste power from the case). Actually, I write from this unit right now. Maybe some day I will find the time to upgrade my FX500SE sample, or get some better unit from review, and after swapping them crack this ELT400AWT open and show you how fine the caps still are. Next year they will definitelly be over their rated life at 75 °C and over half the life at 65 °C.

Milions of combined hours have been run on these RS 3300/16, first on Joe Los (Big Popes) and than mine. Never heard about single cap failing.
Never claimed to be clever, but I know Samxon are very good, very very good..... at making crap caps, seen them fail a lot. Even Capxon and OST had a few good batches.... Dont tell me Samxon is better than Nichicon or even call them good.
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Old 10-26-2015, 01:55 PM   #4
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Default Re: OCZ 700 Watt Bug Zapper Recap & Repair

If you have not been fool you would at least ask when you do not know (which is not bad, but than you ask and not say BS) that Man Yue has been often sourcing electrolyte from Nichicon for many of their series. And because you are fool, you not only don't ask but also fail to understand "beside couple bad series as a whole (GF, GK)" and fail to recognize what do you actually see.

As for ultra-low ESR caps, I have seen shitloads of failed Nichicon, Chemi-Con, even Rubycon caps and only couple Samxon so far (and only on images). Nichicon, Chemi-Con, Rubycon are very good, very very good..... at making crap caps oh yeah…hard logic this is
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Old 10-26-2015, 05:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: OCZ 700 Watt Bug Zapper Recap & Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Northen View Post
Asking people to use Samxon, now that is terrible!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
Two, I replace all no name caps (Samxon included) in every unit, working or not, with real jappers
I just wanted to chime in and say that just like the Japanese brands have some really bad models:
United Chemi Con KZG & KZJ
Nichicon HM & HN for example.
That yes Samxon also has a bad series: Samxon GF

But Samxon is different to the other Chinese brands.
They source their raw materials from Japan but have the factories in China.
Topcat has sold a large range of Samxon capacitors in the past.
He still sells some models but due to reasons explained above that is a reducing stock.
I have used them myself in allot of recap jobs:
because before Badcaps started with international sales Topcat allowed another member of this site: Big Pope to sell to members outside of the US.
To humor you I can give just one fun example, an Antec PSU where the original caps failed after just a little over a year.
It's now been almost 9 whole years with the replacement Samxon's and it's still doing just fine!
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Old 10-26-2015, 05:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: OCZ 700 Watt Bug Zapper Recap & Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemot View Post
If you have not been fool you would at least ask when you do not know (which is not bad, but than you ask and not say BS) that Man Yue has been often sourcing electrolyte from Nichicon for many of their series.
Quote:
But Samxon is different to the other Chinese brands.
They source their raw materials from Japan but have the factories in China.
I've scoured the internet and can't seem to find evidence to back these claims up. Did you email Man Yue, Behemot, and is this what they told you? Not to discredit either of you. But I don't think Nichicon would sell their materials to anyone but their subsidiaries. Then again, I recall reading that Man Yue has held claim that they've done business with Matsushita before (as well as OST and LTEC... LTEC has in fact been operating as a subsidiary of Man Yue since 2010 and Teapo since April 12th of 2005, and if you go to LTEC's website, you will find datasheets for Man Yue's X-CON polymer series, so I think they are their Taiwanese distributor). One last thing about that - when the whole "capacitor plague" fiasco was breaking out over a decade ago, certain "crap" brands were inquired as to where they sourced their materials. Teapo claimed they derived all their materials from Japan (obviously not true) and Jamicon claimed they sourced their electrolyte from Sanyo (Sanyo later denied this). So sometimes it may help to only take the manufacture's word with a grain of salt, should that word stem from the marketing department.

Quote:
And because you are fool, you not only don't ask but also fail to understand "beside couple bad series as a whole (GF, GK)" and fail to recognize what do you actually see.
And GL... unless, of course, GL is a counterfeit series.

Quote:
As for ultra-low ESR caps, I have seen shitloads of failed Nichicon, Chemi-Con, even Rubycon caps and only couple Samxon so far (and only on images). Nichicon, Chemi-Con, Rubycon are very good, very very good..... at making crap caps oh yeah…hard logic this is
The % of failed ultra-low ESR Rubycons has been much smaller than the % of ultra-low ESR failed UCCs and Nichicons. Rubycon seem to know what they're doing, as their main plant in Japan is right on the edge of a spring of incredible purity (the water-base electrolyte is much less contaminated). Being the most expensive of the good brands, I think their QC testing is probably some of the best, as is the grade and purity of their raw materials. I agree that a couple of Rubycon's series seem to be sensitive to heat (MCZ and MFZ) but that's just the nature of that kind of electrolyte in high concentrations. Samxon, Rubycon, and Nichicon discontinued their ultra-low ESR wet lytics anyway, long ago.... also keep in mind that the visual condition of a capacitor does not often correlate with their actual health.

My honest take on the whole matter? QC testing is probably a big part of the issue. Some batches of Samxon may be just bad (no matter the series), not because Man Yue is a crap company but because when the demand is high enough and the availability of parts is low enough, some companies might have to reduce the effort allotted to certain facets of production in order to get the parts out to the customers on time. One of them may unfortunately be QC testing. This could have been what really went askew with early HMs/HNs, even KZGs (NCC is the biggest producer of electrolytics on the planet). One last thing - having your favorite cap (or crap? ) brand is fine, but there's no need to get ultra defensive about it when someone calls them out (or tries to). Some people don't like Samxon or sometimes even UCC. Some prefer Panasonic over the rest of the brands. That's just the way it rolls!

But I hate to derail the thread further so I'll leave it at that. Good work on the repair, SgtRock. Nichicon PW is an excellent choice for PSUs.

Last edited by Wester547; 10-26-2015 at 06:17 PM..
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Old 10-26-2015, 07:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: OCZ 700 Watt Bug Zapper Recap & Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Per Hansson View Post
the Japanese brands have some really bad models:
United Chemi Con KZG & KZJ
Nichicon HM & HN for example.
Not since late '05/06, they fixed those two series.

For example, the computer I'm posting from, right now, has HMs for all the general bypassing, as well as memory regulators. Those caps are the original from Sept 2011.

Don't use the fiasco (overfilled cans) of 10 years ago as the basis to judge post '06 HM/HNs.


As for the KZG/KZJs, those were/are more likely to give trouble, but you'd have warning signs too- maybe those bluescreens and errors in memtest are telling something...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Per Hansson View Post
That yes Samxon also has a bad series: Samxon GF
But Samxon is different to the other Chinese brands.
They source their raw materials from Japan but have the factories in China.
Funny, seems like they cross to capxon GF- would be no surprise if they're both the same thing.

Maybe it's true that some samxons are better, but how many have a "capxon" equivalent/cross/little brother?

How can you be sure the samxons of tomorrow are the same as those 9-year old ones that've held up in that antec?

I can't, and will never use them. Too many similarities- "quality" and appearance of the sleeves/vent scores/printing, and the fact that both crap-zon and sam-zon have series with the same name, again.

Until I find out otherwise, both samxon and capxon are the same thing- will never use them. What happened to pride in your work?

And, as far as jap electrolyte is concerned, if I buy the story (which I won't even rent), the quality of the foil doesn't even matter. "Durr, the electrolyte is all that matters!" Nope, not buying it this much.

China-pride recycled aluminum, making its way into the can or foil, contaminates the entire device, electrolyte be damned. Isn't that one of the many problems crapxons have???



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
So sometimes it may help to only take the manufacture's word with a grain of salt, should that word stem from the [/b]marketing department.[/b
That also goes for their datasheets, which plainly LIE about the supposed life claims of said crap caps. Why is it I can sub a Nichicon VR in a DVD power supply, and the unit will work? It should be obvious they "market" their caps in such a way to unfairly compete with japcaps.

"All specs are the same, therefore all caps are the same." Nothing's further from reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
And GL... unless, of course, GL is a counterfeit series.
I see what you did. You are not shooting from the hip by suggesting GLs are fakes-of-fakes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
Good work on the repair, SgtRock. Nichicon PW is an excellent choice for PSUs.
Nothing wrong with PW. It and HE, when PW won't fit, are my go-to choices for SMPS caps. Panasonic FC/FM/FR are also top picks, depending on availability of the Nichicons. FWIW, 10V japcaps are just fine on 3.3 and 5, you don't have to go up one voltage-grade. That was an old trick to attempt to make crapcaps last longer- how [i]much[/i longer is anyone's guess.

'Rock, that power supply will outlast several computers, nice job!
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Last edited by kaboom; 10-26-2015 at 08:13 PM..
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Old 10-26-2015, 10:52 PM   #8
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Default Re: OCZ 700 Watt Bug Zapper Recap & Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
Not since late '05/06, they fixed those two series.

For example, the computer I'm posting from, right now, has HMs for all the general bypassing, as well as memory regulators. Those caps are the original from Sept 2011.

Don't use the fiasco (overfilled cans) of 10 years ago as the basis to judge post '06 HM/HNs.
Well, the "overfilled" conception came from this announcement:

http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpos...3&postcount=24

And, that announcement didn't actually come from Nichicon. So I don't know what was actually amiss with those HMs and HNs. Maybe they were counterfeit, manufactured by Taicon under subcontract, or maybe Nichicon wasn't using very good inhibitors and oxidizers to rein in the H2O-based corrosion. They do seem to have improved over time at least.

Quote:
Funny, seems like they cross to capxon GF- would be no surprise if they're both the same thing.
Samxon GF... CapXon GF (both green).
Samxon GS... CapXon GS (both blue).
Samxon GL... CapXon GL (both brown).
Samxon KM... CapXon KM (both black).
Samxon LP... CapXon LP (both black snap-ins).
Samxon HP... CapXon HP (both black snap-ins).

All have an equally high failure rate (except Samxon KM seem to be better than CapXon KM). Only difference between them is minor - CapXon's vent stamps seem to be thinner and their sleeve polarity markings slightly aberrant.

Quote:
And, as far as jap electrolyte is concerned, if I buy the story (which I won't even rent), the quality of the foil doesn't even matter. "Durr, the electrolyte is all that matters!" Nope, not buying it this much.

China-pride recycled aluminum, making its way into the can or foil, contaminates the entire device, electrolyte be damned. Isn't that one of the many problems crapxons have???
Yes, the quality of aluminum foil is critical. I suspect that shoddy aluminum is the real reason why all those Teapos and OSTs went bad without showing it...

Quote:
That also goes for their datasheets, which plainly LIE about the supposed life claims of said crap caps. Why is it I can sub a Nichicon VR in a DVD power supply, and the unit will work? It should be obvious they "market" their caps in such a way to unfairly compete with japcaps.
Well, Nichicon VR was a series that PCBONEZ would often complain about. I don't know why - they don't last in very toasty environments but any electrolytic will eventually dry up in such an environment. I have plenty of machines with Nichicon VRs on the output of linear regulators running just fine. Of course low ESR 105*C capacitors would be preferable.

Yes, Nichicon HE, PW, and Chemi-con KY are all apt choices for PSUs. It would be difficult to get better bang for your buck than NCC KY.

Last edited by Wester547; 10-26-2015 at 11:47 PM..
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:28 AM   #9
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Default Re: OCZ 700 Watt Bug Zapper Recap & Repair

Nichicon VR are rated for 85C, that's why he complained when Intel used them as small caps on motherboards.
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Old 10-27-2015, 04:49 AM   #10
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Default Re: OCZ 700 Watt Bug Zapper Recap & Repair

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Old 10-27-2015, 12:04 PM   #11
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Default Re: OCZ 700 Watt Bug Zapper Recap & Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
Samxon GF... CapXon GF (both green).
Samxon GS... CapXon GS (both blue).
Samxon GL... CapXon GL (both brown).
Samxon KM... CapXon KM (both black).
Samxon LP... CapXon LP (both black snap-ins).
Samxon HP... CapXon HP (both black snap-ins).
Never seen bad KM, LP or HP. And I never seen Samxon GS ever, only those blue capxon craps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
Not since late '05/06, they fixed those two series.
I've seen shitloads of bad HN/HM after 05/06.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
Nothing wrong with PW. It and HE, when PW won't fit, are my go-to choices for SMPS caps. Panasonic FC/FM/FR are also top picks, depending on availability of the Nichicons. FWIW, 10V japcaps are just fine on 3.3 and 5, you don't have to go up one voltage-grade. That was an old trick to attempt to make crapcaps last longer- how [i]much[/i longer is anyone's guess.
Just that all of them are bigger, have shorter lifetime and are more expensive than my D10 caps. But yeah, otherwise they are good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
Being the most expensive of the good brands
There is one and only reason why they are expensive: they make almost everything in Japan. That is also why Rubycons are in very little products made in China - as there are high import taxes, everybody is forced to set up a plant in China. Others did, Rubycon not.

Most of the Chemi-Con caps I source are from Indonesia or China, only the custom KZN are from Japan plant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topcat View Post
I'll continue to accept repair work until I'm dead. It's nowhere near that point, I have atleast a year's worth of stuff left to sell....after that, it'll be repair only.
When you run out, my offer to supply you is still valid. As long as I have something to supply
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Old 10-27-2015, 01:12 PM   #12
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Default Re: OCZ 700 Watt Bug Zapper Recap & Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemot View Post
Never seen bad KM, LP or HP. And I never seen Samxon GS ever, only those blue capxon craps.
http://badcaps.net/forum/showpost.ph...10&postcount=1
Never seen a bad KM? Samxon does have a GS series, with blue sleeves.

Quote:
I've seen shitloads of bad HN/HM after 05/06.
Are you saying you've seen older date codes fail after that, or that you've seen many post-2006 HMs and HNs fail?

Quote:
Just that all of them are bigger, have shorter lifetime and are more expensive than my D10 caps. But yeah, otherwise they are good.
Not sure how HE, FR, and PW have shorter lifetimes than RS and GT - HE is rated up to 10,000 hours and PW 8,000 hours (GT up to 10,000 and RS 7,000). And Panasonic FR is rated up to 10,000 hours. Larger case sizes yes.

Quote:
There is one and only reason why they are expensive: they make almost everything in Japan. That is also why Rubycons are in very little products made in China - as there are high import taxes, everybody is forced to set up a plant in China. Others did, Rubycon not.
IIRC, Rubycons with the T, H, and M prefixes on the datecodes are out of Japan, but the ones with A prefixes are out of Singapore and S prefixes out of Indonesia. Also, Nichicon process 90% of their aluminum foil in-house.

Quote:
Most of the Chemi-Con caps I source are from Indonesia or China, only the custom KZN are from Japan plant.
Well, many KZGs and KZJs are straight out of Japan, but yield a very high failure rate. ALL the bad HMs and HNs came out of Japan in accordance to their sleeves.

Goodpsusearch, I knew VR has a 85*C temperature rating, that's why I specified 105*C low ESR capacitors.

Last edited by Wester547; 10-27-2015 at 01:22 PM..
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Old 10-27-2015, 01:29 PM   #13
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Default Re: OCZ 700 Watt Bug Zapper Recap & Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemot View Post
If you have not been fool you would at least ask when you do not know (which is not bad, but than you ask and not say BS) that Man Yue has been often sourcing electrolyte from Nichicon for many of their series. And because you are fool, you not only don't ask but also fail to understand "beside couple bad series as a whole (GF, GK)" and fail to recognize what do you actually see.

As for ultra-low ESR caps, I have seen shitloads of failed Nichicon, Chemi-Con, even Rubycon caps and only couple Samxon so far (and only on images). Nichicon, Chemi-Con, Rubycon are very good, very very good..... at making crap caps oh yeah…hard logic this is
I rest my case, you have said it all......
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Old 10-27-2015, 01:56 PM   #14
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Default Re: OCZ 700 Watt Bug Zapper Recap & Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemot View Post
Never seen bad KM, LP or HP. And I never seen Samxon GS ever, only those blue capxon craps.

I've seen shitloads of bad HN/HM after 05/06.

Just that all of them are bigger, have shorter lifetime and are more expensive than my D10 caps. But yeah, otherwise they are good.

There is one and only reason why they are expensive: they make almost everything in Japan. That is also why Rubycons are in very little products made in China - as there are high import taxes, everybody is forced to set up a plant in China. Others did, Rubycon not.

Most of the Chemi-Con caps I source are from Indonesia or China, only the custom KZN are from Japan plant.


When you run out, my offer to supply you is still valid. As long as I have something to supply
I have seen plenty of bad 2004 and earlier Nichicon HM but good HM with date code of 0453.
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Old 10-27-2015, 02:16 PM   #15
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Default Samxon capacitor quality discussion (spin-off from OCZ Bug Zapper thread)

As you see in the small comment I added to the OP I spun off the thread here.
I found the discussion highly interesting and worthy of it's own thread so we would not hijack SgtRock's original thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
Not since late '05/06, they fixed those two series.
Yes I know, I should maybe have worded my post differently.
See for example this thread here for a pretty good example that the HM & HN issue only affected specific production lines.
So even caps produced during the "known bad years" can be perfectly fine...
And if you have the time to read that thread you will see that I later found another system but that time with KZG caps and the exact same behavior:
Caps on the same board with different datecodes.
And where only one datecode=bad caps...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
How can you be sure the samxons of tomorrow are the same as those 9-year old ones that've held up in that antec?
I can not, and I don't really claim anything either.
My stock of Samxon caps is old, and the caps I buy nowdays are mostly from Elfa Sweden and of the major Japanese brands.
But I used Samxon to "build up" my stock, because they where cheap and back then it was very difficult to get quality caps in Sweden at a decent price.

I also want to clarify that when I said: "They (Samxon) source their raw materials from Japan but have the factories in China."
I specifically meant the aluminium, because that is what I have heard.
The stories about the stolen electrolyte formula are blown way out of proportion and was not what I intended to make it sound like I meant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
Until I find out otherwise, both samxon and capxon are the same thing- will never use them. What happened to pride in your work?
This I have to say I take a bit offense at, I have never had a customer come back with a system which I used Samxon's to replace whatever was there before.
You make it sound like if a customer came back with a problem I would not help them because I don't take pride in my work?
I certainly would and I think I can speak for Topcat here as well and say that he also takes the same pride in his work as I do!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemot View Post
"beside couple bad series as a whole (GF, GK)"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
And GL... unless, of course, GL is a counterfeit series.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaboom View Post
I see what you did. You are not shooting from the hip by suggesting GLs are fakes-of-fakes.
Actually there do exist several companies that make counterfiet Samxon caps.
Well I guess it could be said it's just a coincidence in the naming and model scheme (Samson has for example a X-CON brand which is Samxon's Polymer series).
But just like "Rulycon" it has to be a pretty big "coincidence"
Take a look here to see what Samxon actually manufactures:
http://www.manyue.com/samxon_series_chart.html

Last edited by Per Hansson; 10-27-2015 at 02:31 PM.. Reason: No longer a placeholder ;)
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Old 10-27-2015, 02:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: OCZ 700 Watt Bug Zapper Recap & Repair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
http://badcaps.net/forum/showpost.ph...10&postcount=1
Never seen a bad KM? Samxon does have a GS series, with blue sleeves.
Not sure if this one has actually been bad - most likely not. If it was not bulging though. I learned by that time the ESR Micro has about 0.4 ohm resistance on the leads and needs to be calibrated.
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Are you saying you've seen older date codes fail after that, or that you've seen many post-2006 HMs and HNs fail?
Left me think what after means. Umm, maybe, LATER, not sooner?
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Not sure how HE, FR, and PW have shorter lifetimes than RS and GT - HE is rated up to 10,000 hours and PW 8,000 hours (GT up to 10,000 and RS 7,000). And Panasonic FR is rated up to 10,000 hours. Larger case sizes yes.
Yeah, and why are you talking about RS and GT? Do I have GT somewhere on my stock? How many RS caps can you see there, in % from all caps?

If I am looking right, the PW ends at 1500/16 with D10. The D12.5 3300/16 sausage has life of only 7000 hours, my KZN have lower ESR, higher current and 10k hours in D10. Same goes for HE.

Best of such caps is NCC KYB (why you still use obsolete series?), digi-key carries them for 0.96 USD. My custom D10 KZN are 0.92.

Per Hansson: I think they have their own aluminium foils and bought the electrolyte. Just look at the GC, GD - they have 100% same specs as Nichicon caps. Everybody can make aluminium foils (though not everybody pure enough) but the elctrolyte is what chinese makers have been failing at.

Last edited by Behemot; 10-27-2015 at 02:43 PM..
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Old 10-27-2015, 02:44 PM   #17
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Default Re: OCZ 700 Watt Bug Zapper Recap & Repair

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Originally Posted by Behemot View Post
Not sure if this one has actually been bad - most likely not. If it was not bulging though. I learned by that time the ESR Micro has about 0.4 ohm resistance on the leads and needs to be calibrated.
You said before it was bulging in the thread in question.

Quote:
Left me think what after means. Umm, maybe, LATER, not sooner?
Where have you seen HMs and HNs fail after 2006 then?

Quote:
Yeah, and why are you talking about RS and GT? Do I have GT somewhere on my stock? How many RS caps can you see there, in % from all caps?
I remember you mentioning somewhere that you recommended GT, and I haven't heard of any prematurely failed GTs and RSes (or RLs for that matter, and GY seems to be the long life version of RS). That's why I made mention of them.

I only brought up the capacitor plague because bad cap brands lied about where they source their raw materials at the time. Samxon could be doing that as well. As to specific shifts only being bad... this is debatable. Capacitors fail in many different manners and by themselves are only rated with 60% confidence, so there's no way that they're all going to fail at once (unless a Nichicon HM/HN style debacle happens). KZGs and KZJs have a high enough failure rate to be avoided or replaced on sight. And even if they haven't failed yet, with such unstable electrolyte, there's no telling when they will for no reason. Also, GL could be a counterfeit series, or it could simply be a series only sold to OEMs.

As to GD and GC having the same specifications as HM and HN? Doesn't say much - look at KZE and ZL's datasheet and notice how their numbers are practically identical.

Last edited by Wester547; 10-27-2015 at 02:59 PM..
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Old 10-27-2015, 03:12 PM   #18
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Default Re: OCZ 700 Watt Bug Zapper Recap & Repair

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Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
You said before it was bulging in the thread in question.
Yeah than it was bad. A single one I think
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Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
Where have you seen HMs and HNs fail after 2006 then?
Some boards, don't remember, I don't really post everything I find here for a long time. I wouldn't do anything else you know Some were bloated, more of them had capacity through the roof - internal leakage.
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I remember you mentioning somewhere that you recommended GT, and I haven't heard of any prematurely failed GTs and RSes (or RLs for that matter, and GY seems to be the long life version of RS). That's why I made mention of them.
Yeah but those are very old series too and nowhere to find. Besides my RS I rarely run into anything else than green GF/GK crap.
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As to GD and GC having the same specifications as HM and HN? Doesn't say much - look at KZE and ZL's datasheet and notice how their numbers are practically identical.
Yeah but GC/GD are (close to) 100% identical IIRC.
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Old 10-27-2015, 05:26 PM   #19
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Default Samxon capacitors

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Some boards, don't remember, I don't really post everything I find here for a long time. I wouldn't do anything else you know Some were bloated, more of them had capacity through the roof - internal leakage.
Do you recall the actual date codes?

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Originally Posted by Behemot View Post
Yeah but GC/GD are (close to) 100% identical IIRC.
I don't think it means Nichicon sold their electrolyte to Samxon. Nichicon's HM series is rated for a different temperature range than Samxon's GD series (-40C to +105C vs -25C to +105C). Samxon does make of note on their website that they are the only non-Japanese company to do true and thorough QC testing, but nothing is mentioned about sourcing their materials from Japan (and I think that would be too expensive for them).

Last edited by Wester547; 10-27-2015 at 06:53 PM..
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Old 10-27-2015, 07:46 PM   #20
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Default Re: Samxon capacitor quality discussion (spin-off from OCZ Bug Zapper thread)

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This I have to say I take a bit offense at, I have never had a customer come back with a system which I used Samxon's to replace whatever was there before.
That's... odd. Not that I'm doubting your skills, but rather the luck you've had with the Samxons.

You're getting your stock from electronic component houses, like we do here with Mouser, Digikey, etc, yet those caps have been fine for you. That's what I'm puzzled by. With the Samxon failures and "smiliarities" they share with crapxon, I almost suspect your Samxons are not the same as the other "samxons" myself and others have seen.

Could there both be *actual* Samxon caps (the ones you use), and really good fakes from someone like Crapxon?

That's what I meant by not being sure of what you're getting...


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Originally Posted by Per Hansson View Post
You make it sound like if a customer came back with a problem I would not help them because I don't take pride in my work?
I certainly would and I think I can speak for Topcat here as well and say that he also takes the same pride in his work as I do!
I didn't mean to insinuate that you'd refuse to fix call-backs or tough-dogs.

I based that comment on my experiences with samxons. But based on the luck you've been having, it's like there are two different worlds when it comes to samxons.

I've even mistaken samxon for capxon several times, until I saw the entire sleeve; those particular ones are quite bad, label wise.

As for my suggestion- let's say there are legit samxons along with capxon-samxons. That could explain why we both have greatly different "opinions" about them...




Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
I don't think it means Nichicon sold their electrolyte to Samxon. Nichicon's HM series is rated for a different temperature range than Samxon's GD series (-40C to +105C vs -25C to +105C). Samxon does make of note on their website that they are the only non-Japanese company to do true and thorough QC testing, but nothing is mentioned about sourcing their materials from Japan (and I think that would be too expensive for them).
And don't forget the bean-counters (*cough* Samscum), who proclaim "both series have the same specs, so use the cheaper ones."

On paper, and only on paper, is that true.

As I've stated previously, Nichicon VRs worked while testing devices, when either waiting for the correct caps or to determine if said device was even worth fixing. I've done this.

Now consider two supposedly equal series- one from capxon/ltec, and the other Nichicon. Supposedly equal, meaning can size, ripple current/ESR, capacitance/voltage, as well as endurance. Taken under the same ambient conditions, the junkers blow after a year (hermeis in LCD monitors), yet the "equalivalent" Nichicons outlast the computer that LCD is connected to. If the were equal, they'd also merely last a year.

The datasheets are LYING.

Last edited by kaboom; 10-27-2015 at 07:54 PM..
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