![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
![]() |
#21 |
-
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: CA.
My Country: USA.
Line Voltage: 120-125VAC 60Hz.
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,265
|
![]() Rubycon YXF is another excellent series which has proven itself worthy in terms of long-term reliability, although it’s an ethylene glycol based series IIRC but with a very good endurance rating.
I was wondering if a disclaimer should be added at the end of this post and this post which warns about Panasonic FC’s problem? It’s still on the “good listing” as of now. I’m also curious if the series it replaced, Panasonic FA, another non-aqueous series with identical ripple current and ESR ratings but slightly different and larger cases sizes, discontinued twenty years ago, has this problem as well (I’d hazard a guess that it does). It’s probably not as pressing seeing as how it was discontinued so long ago. But it would be a pity if Panasonic was still manufacturing problematic caps to this day. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#22 | ||
master hoarder
Join Date: May 2008
City & State: VA (NoVA)
My Country: U.S.A.
Line Voltage: 120 VAC, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 10,860
|
![]() Quote:
But the leaking from the bottom part is what worries me a bit, as electrolyte can be corrosive and eat away traces. I'd much rather have a cap bulge and stop working that way instead of leaking from the bung. Glad I haven't used FC that much, then. I did use FM in previous repairs quite a bit, though. But those having aqueous electrolyte, I don't image they have the same problem. Also, I have some FC caps pulled from an old Pentium II motherboard, and note of them have leaked. Same in an old Astec PSu. Quote:
Or if you want to be fancy, Nichicon KT and KA are specifically made/rated for audio use (from what I remember when comparing the datasheet to other caps, these audio caps have lower leakage and higher low-frequency ripple rating.). That said, you probably won't get much difference in sound when upgrading those caps. So instead, maybe try going with 220 uF caps, as that should give better bass / lower low-cutoff frequency. And if you really want to improve quality - at least when it comes to using non-amplified headphones directly connected to the mobo audio, then build/get a dedicated (headphone) amplifier and remove any series output resistors it may have on the output. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#23 | |
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2005
City & State: ----
My Country: Sweden
Line Voltage: 230v 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 5,221
|
![]() Quote:
And we all know (well some know) that Rubycon MCZ and even MBZ can have troubles with heat. Point is the "troubles" is still 100x times less than some other problematic brands. So where do we draw the line? I would certainly like to see more documented failures than this to rule them as bad. Hell, even UCC KZG and Nichicon HM is only affected for a certain date range, maybe same here?
__________________
"The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it." |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#24 |
-
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: CA.
My Country: USA.
Line Voltage: 120-125VAC 60Hz.
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,265
|
![]() Sorry, it was just a suggestion, wasn’t trying to dictate the general consensus. Rubycon MCZ and MFZ have issues pertaining to heat failures but they are not known to fail just sitting unused. MBZ are fine as long as you don’t abuse them. Panasonic FC aren’t “bad” in the sense that they are completely crap (“doomed to failure”) a la Sacon FZ but the fact that we have multiple members reporting them repeatedly leaking in cool environments after a decade, and now leaking unused, is worrisome (I don’t think datecode is a factor). This is similar to the quaternary ammonium salt capacitor plague of the late 80s / early 90s. They were known to cause various problems in ECUs and what not. They were not failing just because they were overstressed, as the bungs were deteriorating faster than conventional electrolytics.
But I guess you have a point - Sanyo WG and WX aren’t on the “bad” list but I (and momaka) have seen one or another bulge and leak just sitting in storage with respect to early batches, just like failure prone batches of KZG/KZJ/HM/HN/HZ and crap brands. Would I personally label early batches of WG and WX “troublesome” because of this? Yes, but I suppose you’re right, it’s a matter of opinion and not an objective topic. Samxon for an example is generally considered a good brand here although some have had issues with that one brand (and not just with the GF and GK series either). Last edited by Wester547; 02-12-2020 at 11:12 AM.. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#25 |
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2005
City & State: ----
My Country: Sweden
Line Voltage: 230v 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 5,221
|
![]() Yea don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be the dictator of Badcaps here!
But the thought I had was exactly what you write: how many more brands/models do we put on the "maybe bad list"? I mean it's pretty strange that HM/HN was not updated on that list even! P.S: I added the note about KZG maybe being ok from year 2008 that you informed me of in another thread way back when. Last edited by Per Hansson; 02-12-2020 at 10:24 AM.. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#26 |
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,351
|
![]() A bit late to the conversation, but the obvious question would be about Nichicon's FC equivalent which is PW.
__________________
"...I suppose he wants to be free of youthful associations, as most of us do." -Robertson Davies "...don't say oh my god, your god is far away from you. I give you massage. I am your god now." -Luo Dong |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#27 | |
master hoarder
Join Date: May 2008
City & State: VA (NoVA)
My Country: U.S.A.
Line Voltage: 120 VAC, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 10,860
|
![]() Quote:
I am still a bit weary of some of the Nichicon entry-level caps, though. For example, I had genuine (from Mouser) Nichicon PM leak from the bottom (from the leads) while still new in package after a few years in storage. I've also seen old Nichicon PR caps do that. Not sure if PL was affected too. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#28 |
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2010
City & State: Alberta
My Country: Canada
Posts: 2,627
|
![]() The Panasonic FC series also got popular for audio use because they sound fine, not a lot of distortion or dielectric non-linearity.
I have to recap a soundbar and subwoofer, going to use FR series although they are specifically stated as "not for automotive use" for some reason. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#29 | |
-
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: CA.
My Country: USA.
Line Voltage: 120-125VAC 60Hz.
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,265
|
![]() Quote:
![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#30 | |
Great Sage 齊天大聖
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Europe
My Country: some shithole run by Israeli agents
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 26,843
|
![]() Quote:
there is also an ISO standard. at the moment only FC passes. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#31 | |
master hoarder
Join Date: May 2008
City & State: VA (NoVA)
My Country: U.S.A.
Line Voltage: 120 VAC, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 10,860
|
![]() Quote:
Have 5 more in my stock, but they haven't gotten worse. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#32 |
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,351
|
![]() Huh, PM? PW is supposed to be a miniaturized analog of PM.... That's not very reassuring. Don't they both use the same non-aqueous electrolyte?
It would be nice to use only LXZ, but NCC caps are often much more expensive. Wester547: would you agree with the statement that it is possible to find old butyric acid capacitors in some 50 year old equipment that still test perfectly fine? |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#33 | ||
-
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: CA.
My Country: USA.
Line Voltage: 120-125VAC 60Hz.
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,265
|
![]() Quote:
Another example: UCC’s KZG datasheet claims that KZE and KZG share the same electrolyte, just as KZJ’s datasheet says KZG and KZJ share the same electrolyte. Yet KZE is still much more stable than the other two series (although it’s worth noting KZE has a considerably smaller percentage of water in the electrolyte). Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#34 | |
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2005
City & State: San Jose, CA
My Country: USA, Unsure of Planet
Line Voltage: 120VAC, 60Hz & 115VAC, 400Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 3,398
|
![]() Quote:
__________________
PeteS in CA Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells. **************************** To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it. **************************** Anti-Covid-Vaxxer pig crap claim/prediction, Doctor: Heart Failure from mRNA Jabs "Will Kill Most People" | Principia Scientific Intl. ; Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche Warns COVID-19 Jab Injuries and Deaths Will Soon "Collapse Our Health System" (VIDEO) ; Fully Vaxxed May 2021; Since that time I've done 7 5Ks, 1 8K, 8 10Ks, and 4 half marathons |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#35 |
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2013
City & State: Maritimes
My Country: Canada
Line Voltage: 250V Split-phased, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 52
|
![]() Am wondering as well. I've also seen a few FCs leak in older GM/Ford ECUs. likewise Nichicon PF/PL/PR, NCC LXF/LXJ leakers that I can remember that I've seen in many 80s/90s old electronics. Does anybody know if FC uses quaternary ammonium salts or something related like the early Low ESR from that era? Am aware that FC is non-aqueous.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#36 | |
-
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: CA.
My Country: USA.
Line Voltage: 120-125VAC 60Hz.
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 1,265
|
![]() Quote:
![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#37 |
Great Sage 齊天大聖
Join Date: Dec 2009
City & State: Europe
My Country: some shithole run by Israeli agents
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 26,843
|
![]() the problem with FC is not the electrolyte - it's the bung failing.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#38 | |
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2013
City & State: Maritimes
My Country: Canada
Line Voltage: 250V Split-phased, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 52
|
![]() Quote:
Even then, rubber does decompose after decades. It doesn't help when ammonia/ammonium attacks rubber and some plastics, expediting the process. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#39 |
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 56
|
![]() share some of my experience, the stuff (liquid and paper) in Panasonic FC is moderately flammable, will ignite with a cigar lighter and sustain fire.
many other caps are not flammable or unable to sustain fire. this suggest fc is organic based with very little water. with my limited chemistry knowledge, less water means less corrosion more stable and longer life |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#40 | |
Badcaps Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2013
City & State: Maritimes
My Country: Canada
Line Voltage: 250V Split-phased, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 52
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|