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Old 02-20-2021, 08:28 PM   #21
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosLegionnaire View Post
neither of those are suitable because kzg is a very low esr series and FL is an ultra low esr series like FJ. kzgs are also a defective failure prone series unless their date codes are later than 2007 or 2008.
Correct... though probably both will work fine, since the 3.3V rail uses a mag-amp and generally is OK with slightly lower ESR. That said, I'd pick the Panny FL caps, since KZG is known to have problems (at least the older ones.) So to avoid any gambles, go with FL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zunasthegreat View Post
I saw the cap mark on VY and also checked their site and it seems VY is a 105 C rated cap.
Ah, you're right. I was thinking of the VR series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zunasthegreat View Post
3.3V -> 2X 1500uf FL or KZG 6.3V
5V -> 2X Nichicon HV 1500uf 16V
12V -> 1X Nichicon VY 3300uf 16V
I'd probably do it more like this:

3.3V -> 2X 1500uf FL 6.3V
5V -> 1X Nichicon VY 3300uf 16V + 1x Nichicon HV 1500uf 16V
12V -> 1X Nichicon VY 3300uf 16V

And also:
5VSB -> 1x 1500uf FL 6.3V *or* 1x Nichicon HV 1500uf 16V

Don't neglect the 5VSB, even though it's a low-power rail. Due to using flyback topology, it is actually one of the most stressful rail for caps, so only use good name-brand caps there. Both Panasonic FL or Nichcion HV will do fine here. In fact, 5VSB typically do really well with very low or ultra-low ESR... so FL or HV will do nicely... or you can use a 1000 uF polymer for one of the caps there too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zunasthegreat View Post
*Pretty sure even 100$ PSU doesn't use that kind of CAP anymore its just Teapo, ChongX, ASIA-X etc
I don't know about that. Here you can get a very good PSU for $100 with name-brand Japanese capacitors. Only thing you need to be concerned for at this price range is the power rating. You can either get a more "powerful" PSU that is built with slightly smaller/weaker input caps or a more "modest" PSU that is overbuilt a lot. IMO, the latter is the better option, as I've seen a lot of high-power PSUs blow their primary caps after many years of use (yes, even Japanese brands), due to APFC putting a lot of stress on them, especially at high loads.
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Old 02-21-2021, 11:22 AM   #22
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

12V -> Nichicon VY 3300uf 16V (done)
5V/3.3V -> Band-aid Lelon 2200uf + 1000uf Nichicon VY (Will update with better caps later)
5VSB -> Has NICON 16V 1000uf and a 470uf 16V. 1000uf cap has to be 8mm otherwise it pushes another small cap to the heatsink. The only 8mm non-crap (chengX, Teapo, OST) that I have is the infamous *KZG* 6.3V 1500uf. I'll add cap photo in case someone knows production date. Thanks a lot fellas.

Funny thing that I've found 2 perfect KZG caps from a 2006 3com switch. Some P/N are not that affected it seems. People that review PSU's say most makers have to use lower quality caps due to limited stock, the Q/C is lower cause they have to fulfill more orders. I have another PSU that will probably need care soon, all filtering caps are from TEAPO. I don't think it will look good.
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Old 02-21-2021, 01:43 PM   #23
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

http://www.paullinebarger.net/DS/Che...E%20DECODE.pdf

June 2009
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Old 02-21-2021, 03:24 PM   #24
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

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Much appreciated
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Old 02-23-2021, 11:43 PM   #25
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

Quote:
Originally Posted by zunasthegreat View Post
5VSB -> Has NICON 16V 1000uf and a 470uf 16V. 1000uf cap has to be 8mm otherwise it pushes another small cap to the heatsink. The only 8mm non-crap (chengX, Teapo, OST) that I have is the infamous *KZG* 6.3V 1500uf.
Based on the pictures you provided of your PSU, I think it should be possible to squeeze a 10 mm cap in that spot if you let the cap sit raised about 2-3 above the PCB with slightly longer leads and bending them a little.

Otherwise, it's hard to say which one of the cap choices above would be a good replacement. I want to say the KZG may do better than all of these... but also it may not, given that it's a 6.3V one, and I just don't trust those, no matter what date code they have.

The OST... might be OK if RLS series. But any others, I'd avoid. Same goes for Teapo - SY series might be OK-ish. All others: Meh.
ChengX... "non-crap"? Nah, you kidding, right?! All Cheng/Chang/Chong/X/whatever are

Quote:
Originally Posted by zunasthegreat View Post
I have another PSU that will probably need care soon, all filtering caps are from TEAPO. I don't think it will look good.
If they are all Teapo, just check them on the ESR meter. If still in spec, probably OK to leave them... unless those Nichicon HV caps you have match the capacity and/or voltage too on some of the Teapos.
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Old 02-24-2021, 11:33 AM   #26
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

I will switch 5VSB to KY 1000uf or FL 1000uf probably and 3.3V/5V to KY 2200uf 10V if they arrive in time. The latest c[r]ap discovery was bulged samwha caps inside a 223BW monitor. Specs are 25V/820uF SAMWHA XC 105C but no datasheet. Another band-aid job for Nichicon VY 1000uf 25V / HD 680uf 25V and a small 47uf to Nichicon PJ.

I'm pretty sure XC are made for High Ripple so I guess I'm gonna need something better than VY here too.
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Old 02-25-2021, 09:39 PM   #27
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

Quote:
Originally Posted by zunasthegreat View Post
The latest c[r]ap discovery was bulged samwha caps inside a 223BW monitor. Specs are 25V/820uF SAMWHA XC 105C but no datasheet. Another band-aid job for Nichicon VY 1000uf 25V / HD 680uf 25V and a small 47uf to Nichicon PJ.

I'm pretty sure XC are made for High Ripple so I guess I'm gonna need something better than VY here too.
Yeah, monitor PSUs use flyback topology, so caps with high ripple current specs would be desirable. Probably better to slip in a few more Nichicon HD 680 uF in there in place of some of the VYs, as they have better specs than the VY... though the VY should hold up OK too if the monitor doesn't run too hot.

For cap choices for monitors, generally these are what works pretty well:
Panasonic FR, FM, FS... and FC if the other 3 are not available
Rubycon ZLQ, ZLH, ZLJ, ZL, and maybe YXG and YXJ too
Nichicon HE, HD, HC, HW, HV and probably also PW, PS, PM, and PJ will do
United Chemicon KY, KZE, KYB, KZH... along with LXZ, LXY, and LXV if the first 4 aren't available first.
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Old 03-02-2021, 07:13 AM   #28
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

Here is the FSP 300W I talked about earlier, all caps are from Teapo and two of them are inside heat-shrink tube. It also seems that each 12V output V1/V2 has 2 16V 1000V caps. I don't think it needs any improvements atm.
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Old 03-05-2021, 10:09 AM   #29
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

Another non-visible GSC c[r]ap from a P4 board. Dimm detection is dodgy so this might be an issue from the aging caps.
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Old 03-06-2021, 11:47 PM   #30
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

Quote:
Originally Posted by zunasthegreat View Post
Here is the FSP 300W I talked about earlier, all caps are from Teapo and two of them are inside heat-shrink tube. It also seems that each 12V output V1/V2 has 2 16V 1000V caps. I don't think it needs any improvements atm.
Yup, looks pretty good... though at 5-8 years old, you might want to check back on it again - that's roughly how long it takes for some of the Teapo caps to become problematic. Not all of them will, though. I also see this PSU has mostly black Teapo SY series, which IMO tend to be a little more stable than their green/gold SC and SM series. The worst ones are the blue/gold -colored SZ series, which I see one (6.3V 2200 uF) on the secondary side. Most likely, that will be the first one to fail... and then probably the 5VSB output filter after that (or around the same time.)

Primary input cap is also Teapo... which can be a bit risky with APFC PSUs (which this one is) after a few years. At least it's rated for 420V... though capacity is a bit low at 180 uF for a "300W" PSU. I'm sure the PSU will do its rated output on the label, but that primary cap is just borderline cutting it in with the capacitance. 270 uF would be a little better to see here.

But other than the cap choices, that's a pretty decent PSU that actually will do the rated power numbers on its label and not blow up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zunasthegreat View Post
Another non-visible GSC c[r]ap from a P4 board. Dimm detection is dodgy so this might be an issue from the aging caps.
Yup, I got a few failed Evercon caps like that too - not bulging and high ESR with high vloss. GSC/Evercon/Sacon really are some of the worst caps, right down with Rubycon-copycats, like Rulycon and Rudoycon.
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Old 03-09-2021, 05:02 PM   #31
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

One funny thing that still bugs me is the Nitrox PSU that switches off when I play with DVD-ROM drives. I had two drives connected and upon pressing eject on both it switched off. I have to power cycle the PSU to boot again. Will have to wait for the scope to check for ripple. This PSU is like the one you fix'ed on another post with I think 2X F12C202 SBR's for 12V. Can it really provide 18-20A on 12V rail btw ?
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Old 03-10-2021, 12:25 AM   #32
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

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Originally Posted by zunasthegreat View Post
One funny thing that still bugs me is the Nitrox PSU that switches off when I play with DVD-ROM drives. I had two drives connected and upon pressing eject on both it switched off. I have to power cycle the PSU to boot again. Will have to wait for the scope to check for ripple.
I guess the low-ESR Nichicon HV caps may just have too low of an ESR for this PSU. Run it with the VY's only, then. When it comes to these older half-bridge designs, you can always count on capacity as being "king" in terms of ripple filtering.

Would definitely be interested to see what your scope is showing. Make sure you do bypass your scope properly, of course (IIRC, there were a few articles for the one or two caps needed to do that so your scope picks up the noise from the PSU correctly.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zunasthegreat View Post
This PSU is like the one you fix'ed on another post with I think 2X F12C202 SBR's for 12V. Can it really provide 18-20A on 12V rail btw ?
You mean the KDMPower MIPC MI-X8775CD?
Yeah, when I was looking at the pictures of your power supply, it indeed reminded me of my KDMPower PSU as it looks very similar in terms of component layout in some areas on the PCB.

That one actually had 2x 20A 100V rectifiers... though I removed one.

It still did 15 Amps on the 12V rail, and that's with a low-line voltage input. So I think 18 Amps may actually be feasible... though I imagine the ripple on the 12V is going to be quite high (given that your PSU has a spot only for one cap there), if even in spec at all. I certainly don't suggest peaking higher than 20 Amps for a few seconds, if even that much.
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Old 03-10-2021, 04:35 AM   #33
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

I think I might have one and can salvage some more MBR20200CT's for the 12V rail. Those are salvagable from dead PSU's, mighty Deer/codegen/allied/l+c PSU's offer a ton of spare parts
For the scope I think you have to put some caps to isolate ground, it's on some intel slide.
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Old 03-16-2021, 01:08 PM   #34
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

Another half bridge beast with special scissor marks on the pcb. The R37 680Kohm resistor is cut and has that scissor icon, any clue whats the deal with it ? PSU is a powertech brand without even the 3.3V coil plus next to that resistor there is marking with "OPP". I guess its an overpower protection ...


Upon using it on a testbed with a Soltek P4 board the 3.3V reading was ... 3.05V
Usual business with one F16C20C Mospec SBR for 12V. The laber markings are quite funny : 3.3V - 14A / 5V - 10A and 12V 29A (14+15)
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Old 03-17-2021, 06:59 PM   #35
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

what the...?! sanyo cap with a plus vent?! totally screams fake to me...
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Old 03-19-2021, 09:26 AM   #36
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

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Originally Posted by ChaosLegionnaire View Post
what the...?! sanyo cap with a plus vent?! totally screams fake to me...
Haha yeap ChengX - ChongX or Sanyo sometimes. Those have the same maze diagram between the cap legs. I see those very often on many boards.
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Old 03-19-2021, 11:42 PM   #37
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

Quote:
Originally Posted by zunasthegreat View Post
Another half bridge beast with special scissor marks on the pcb. The R37 680Kohm resistor is cut and has that scissor icon, any clue whats the deal with it ? PSU is a powertech brand without even the 3.3V coil plus next to that resistor there is marking with "OPP". I guess its an overpower protection ...
Yup, if that resistor was cut out from a section labeled OPP, probably they did that to either raise the maximum allowable power or lower it (depending on circuit design), probably according to the parts they installed in the PSU.

In any case, I'm always a bit skeptical if the OPP would work properly on these cheapo PSUs. On some, it does. But just don't count on it.

Regarding the missing 2nd 3.3V coil... PSU probably uses linear regulation for the 3.3V rail then. See what part on the heatsink connects to the 3.3V rail. If it's a MOSFET, 3.3V rail is surely a linear job (and likely taking power from the 5V rail.) This isn't a bad design, per se, but just a little more inefficient. On the plus side, the 3.3V rail does end up with very little ripple, even with crap undersized caps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zunasthegreat View Post
Upon using it on a testbed with a Soltek P4 board the 3.3V reading was ... 3.05V
:\
Curious what they done goofed up to do that. I imagine this reading was with a multimeter and not taken from mobo monitor? If with mobo monitor, I'd disregard it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zunasthegreat View Post
Usual business with one F16C20C Mospec SBR for 12V.
Well, you got somewhat lucky. A lot of cheaper PSUs come with a F12C20C - just barely enough to run a low-end CPU with an entry-level GPU without blowing up... like something along the lines of an i3 or low-end i5 and a GTX1030. It's all the same trash though, - these cheap PSU manufacturers haven't really changed their ways too much over the years.

On the other hand, I still find it amazing that 40-year-old designs (namely, the half-bridge) is still able to run modern PCs.

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Originally Posted by ChaosLegionnaire View Post
what the...?! sanyo cap with a plus vent?! totally screams fake to me...
LOL, good catch!

I didn't even see the Sanyo text. The moment my peripheral vision caught the crappy stamp on the vent, I didn't even bother to look at what the cap was and just assumed it to be a crap brand... or I guess in this case, a counterfeit!

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Old 03-20-2021, 04:24 AM   #38
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

I think 3.3V line uses MBR2045CT, hard to say for sure cause its well hidden. To improve this psu's nudity I've installed some X Y Caps. All filter caps are 1500uf LOWESR from YHC? with space for one cap for each as usual. I'll put Lelon RGA 2200/3300uf there and will let it be. The 3.3V line on DMM went up to ~3.15V on the Jetway P4 board and shows around ~3.4V on a C2Q P31 board. Btw it uses 13007T transistors and I doubt that it will do over 200W
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Old 03-22-2021, 11:59 AM   #39
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

Powertech got the Polymer care for the 5VSB it needed. Plus I've installed :
5V -> 2200uf KY 10V
12V -> Lelon RGA 3300uf 16V
3.3 -> Lelon RGA 2200uf 6.3V
5VSB -> 470uf 16V KY + OCRZ 1000uf 16V (polymer)

Just left chengx masterpieces for -12V and an 50V 47uf near 5VSB cause they had decent Esr. The 47uf cap has like ~0.2Ω ESR

PSU has very weak 3.3V (14A) / 5V (10A) btw, won't be a big deal for a Xeon 771 modded on a P31 with a HD 5450. System pulls most juice from 12V anyway
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Old 03-23-2021, 02:08 PM   #40
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Default Re: junky Jetway P4MDPT board

Another nasty discovery upon cleaning a chieftec aps-500 (10y old PSU). One Teapo SC is bloated and others are starting to raise in capacity (pics bellow). The bloated one (3300uf) is filtering the 3.3V line, 5V and 12V lines use 2200uf caps and psu has 2 for each line. The very crammed area around 3.3V forced me to swap that cap for a 2200uf KY 10V as my other GP caps are Nichicon VZ 3300uf 6.3 and lelon GP. I choose some nichicon PW 10v 1000uf for 5VSB as the space is OK there. 5V line got a KY 2200uf 10V and 12V a Nichicon HD 16V 2200uf (12mm was hard to fit).

Original Cap spec
3.3V -> 2X Teapo SC 3300uf 6.3V
5V -> 2X Teapo SC 2200uf 10V
12V -> 2X Teapo SC 2200uf 16V
5VSB -> 2X Teapo SC 1000 10V

TEMP SOLUTION
3.3V -> 1X Teapo / 1X KY 2200uf 10V
5V -> 1X Teapo / 1X KY 2200uf 10V
12 -> 1X Teapo / 1X Nichicon HD 2200uf 16V
5VSB -> 2X Nichicon PW 1000uf 10V

PSU is Group Regulated with proper equipment, nothing fancy.
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