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    Server Upgrade?

    I'm pushing 5 years on my current server and I'm thinking it may be time for some sort of an upgrade.

    The main issue I'm having is random ATA errors locking the system up at the most inopportune times. Probably the PATA to SATA adapter (I have a few more NOS ones on the shelf I could toss at it) but honestly I'm thinking an old "early" socket 940 board is a retro rig in 2023 and ough to be retired.

    The question for me is how much of an upgrade should I shoot for? The main issue I have to deal with is if I keep my chassis, the backplane is 16x SATA. Not SAS. And if I want to keep my data, I either need a board with PCI-X (for my 3ware 9550 card) or I need to get a 16 port 9560 card (which is basically a 9550 in PCIe). The latter is doable... I know I found one once and thought about buying it (but didn't)... but I can get one for $30 used (and move over my BBU). Edit- Went ahead and bought the card. $30 isn't much these days...

    But after that, I have some options to play with. Anything newer will have PCIe, so I don't necessarily need to keep my boot drive (which is currently an ancient 80GB SATA 7200RPM clay pigeon). If I'm not mistaken, I could use an M2 to PCIe adapter and run an NVME boot drive? Anybody done this before? Do such support MBR, or would I need something new enough to support GPT/uEFI? Otherwise, I have a few SATA SSDs kicking around (a low-end 120GB PNY and a 256GB Intel 5400s).

    Currently I don't need a ton of computing power... unless I ever go back to running a Minecraft server or do anything else exciting. For what I currently do, the existing twin dual-core 940 setup works when it's not getting ATA errors. But it's a power hog to some degree and and is getting antiquated.

    I may start looking around fleabay to see what I can find. Preferably something relatively cool running (No FBDIMMs, etc.). And probably supermicro eATX (as that's my thing and what I know will fit an work).

    All of this said, If I found another 3U/4U file server on a newer chassis, I'd be open to a migration. But it would likely be more expense as I'd need all new drives and the like. The nice part of my current setup is that even though it was a pre-built SGI "rackable" system, it was built with enough off-the-shelf parts that it's in effect a barebones that can run practically anything I want with 2U/3U coolers and ATX connectors.
    Last edited by ratdude747; 01-31-2023, 06:10 PM.
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    #2
    Re: Server Upgrade?

    How much storage capacity do you need?
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      #3
      Re: Server Upgrade?

      Originally posted by Topcat View Post
      How much storage capacity do you need?
      I currently have 1.75 TB in a raid 10 (14x 250GB 7200RPM HDD). Of which I think maybe 1TB is used (a lot of it is another member's datasheet collection that I acted/am acting as a spare backup of).

      ---

      Doing some digging... and look what I found:

      https://www.ebay.com/itm/175274862240

      "has 24GB installed, but only detects 20GB". Bad RAM? Not sure if that's worth the gamble. Obviously I'd need to put on some dynatron (or similar) coolers.
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        #4
        Re: Server Upgrade?

        Being under 2tb, I'd roll with some efficient with a M.2. Wouldn't cost much.
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          #5
          Re: Server Upgrade?

          Originally posted by Topcat View Post
          Being under 2tb, I'd roll with some efficient with a M.2. Wouldn't cost much.
          You mean dump the entire system and software RAID something?

          The M.2. idea was for the boot drive. Not the entire storage system.
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            #6
            Re: Server Upgrade?

            Another thing I found:

            https://www.ebay.com/itm/265788983739

            Only thing there is that I'd want to keep my PCI-X cards since it only has 2 PCIe. Which would make my preemptive 9650 buy a bit premature.

            Or better yet, from the same seller:

            https://www.ebay.com/itm/265823125970

            32GB of RAM and has plenty of PCIe. While that means swapping cards (one of which I've already bought), that gives me more options using more modern hardware. Unless there's an objection, I'm thinking that's a deal. Funny enough it's still AMD.
            Last edited by ratdude747; 01-31-2023, 06:47 PM.
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              #7
              Re: Server Upgrade?

              One (hopefully) minor issue: My PSU backplane only gives one 12V motherboard plug (an 8 pin)... but most newer eATX board require either a 4 and an 8 or 2 8's.

              Might be able to make an adapter... if my PSU's are up to the task. The quad opterons above are 115W TDP each; the old dual opteron 285's I have now are only 68W TDP. The PSU's themselves are rated for 550W, but the system is also powering 16 (up to 18) 7200RPM spinners. Hopefully the idle power draw is less... as so far this is looking like more power draw. Maybe the RAID'd SSD route has merit after all... even if it's less "impressive" and costs more initially.
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                #8
                Re: Server Upgrade?

                Time out. Looking at the pic of the PSU label (from the old server's thread), there's the nail in the newer eATX coffin:



                Only 330W avaiable for +12V... *sad trombone* Yes with dual PSU's there's enough, but then it's not really redundant.

                Maybe I ought to be looking at desktop ATX boards... As "vanilla" as such would be here, that's what my PSU bank can support. The 9650 card eliminates the need for PCI-X, and a dual port gigabit card plus an onboard gigabit would get me the existing 3 bonded LANs I currently use (although in all honesty, triple gigabit may be overkill)
                Last edited by ratdude747; 01-31-2023, 07:28 PM.
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                  #9
                  Re: Server Upgrade?

                  Originally posted by Topcat View Post
                  Being under 2tb, I'd roll with some efficient with a M.2. Wouldn't cost much.
                  ^Something along the lines of this. At the very least I'd ditch the ton of old low-capacity HDDs for a smaller number of higher capacity ones given how cheap storage is these days, and even a relatively efficient modern CPU (like an S or T suffix I5/I7 or even a recent 15W TDP laptop CPU) will run circles around that old socket 940 system and use a lot less power and generate a lot less heat in the process.


                  My current "server" (mainly a NAS) consists of a used HP ProDesk 600 G3 (non-SFF) with an I5-6400T (35W TDP), 24GB DDR4-2400 ram, a 256GB Hynix PC711 M.2 NVMe SSD as an OS drive, and a pair of 6TB HGST UltraStar He6 SATA HDDs in RAID1 for storage, and a 2.5 gigabit ethernet card.


                  It only draws around 20W at idle and 25-40W when transferring files, and the I5-6400T has plenty of head-room if I want it to do more than just storage. It can manage 200+ MB/s (Megabytes not Megabits, though only to other 2.5G equipped devices) data transfer and only uses around 25% CPU doing it (when transferring to gigabit or wireless devices it is at <10% with the client device's ethernet speed being the bottleneck).
                  Last edited by dmill89; 01-31-2023, 09:06 PM.

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                    #10
                    Re: Server Upgrade?

                    Tossing in some links to stuff I've found:

                    https://www.ebay.com/itm/165894998623 (A bit spendy and perhaps a waste of a gaming board... but for what's included it's not bad? Even if is from Goodwill )

                    https://www.ebay.com/itm/165894998985 (Half the RAM as above, but quite a bit cheaper too. Same seller...)

                    https://www.ebay.com/itm/266101514535 (If I knew the RAM was included, this would be attractive, even with a poorly ratdude'd I/O shield)

                    https://www.ebay.com/itm/165150859816 (an actual server board, and the included i3 CPU is only 65W TDP).

                    ---

                    If dumping the whole setup, I'd like to at least have something rackmount (or less ideally, fit on a rack shelf). But, a lot of new drives, case, etc adds up... Was kinda hoping to keep the total cost under $150 (as an incremental upgrade on the existing chassis), but if this is a case of "spending a nickel on old is a nickle down the crapper", then I guess I'll keep nursing along the beast.

                    ---

                    Looking at the last one some more. Maybe that's the right direction at least. They did make an i3 -T CPU for such that was 35W TDP... But that's sandy bridge. I wonder what something a bit newer would cost as individual parts (so I could drop in a -T CPU)...
                    Last edited by ratdude747; 01-31-2023, 09:11 PM.
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                      #11
                      Re: Server Upgrade?

                      Here we go:

                      https://www.ebay.com/itm/234099727949

                      A bit spendier than what I would have wanted, but I think this will fit the bill. Yeah, it has a 65W i7 in it, but if I want to cut that to 35W, it'll accept a Xeon E3-1265L v4. 25W, there's the Xeon E3-1240L v3. Heck, if I only want 2 cores, they made a 13W E3-1220L v3. Will buy if eBay's site stops glitching out.
                      Last edited by ratdude747; 01-31-2023, 10:19 PM.
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                        #12
                        Re: Server Upgrade?

                        Bought the above board/CPU/RAM/cooler. Also nabbed a dual port Gigabit card for 10 shipped.

                        SSD wise I think I'll save a bit of dough and dust off the 256GB Intel. It was in my former main laptop before it got replaced and combined with my dad's identical laptop which fried a MOBO. Due to the way that SGI built the system, I think I can mod the tray the holds the rear drives to have a 2.5" spot for the SSD (no 3.5" adapter needed).
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                          #13
                          Re: Server Upgrade?

                          Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
                          Bought the above board/CPU/RAM/cooler. Also nabbed a dual port Gigabit card for 10 shipped.

                          SSD wise I think I'll save a bit of dough and dust off the 256GB Intel. It was in my former main laptop before it got replaced and combined with my dad's identical laptop which fried a MOBO. Due to the way that SGI built the system, I think I can mod the tray the holds the rear drives to have a 2.5" spot for the SSD (no 3.5" adapter needed).
                          Nice! Your love of SM brings a tear to my eye! I've trained you well!
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                            #14
                            Re: Server Upgrade?

                            Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
                            The main issue I'm having is random ATA errors locking the system up at the most inopportune times. Probably the PATA to SATA adapter
                            If I remember correctly from your thread many years ago, that board uses an nVidia chipset. If so... I wouldn't be surprised with this result at all, regardless that it's a SM board. Seems like anything with an nVidia chipset is bound to give trouble at some point. For this reason, I would never use a board with an nVidia chipset anymore as a main system or anything that needs good reliability. Beater system? - Eh... maybe.

                            Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
                            Bought the above board/CPU/RAM/cooler. Also nabbed a dual port Gigabit card for 10 shipped.

                            Probably makes more sense in the long run at this point than going with something older.
                            The board looks quite well built (well, it's SM and with older Intel CPU + chipset) so it should be quite reliable.

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                              #15
                              Re: Server Upgrade?

                              Originally posted by Topcat View Post
                              Nice! Your love of SM brings a tear to my eye! I've trained you well!
                              I did look at a lot of other things. Just happened to be another SM that struck my fancy.

                              Originally posted by momaka View Post
                              If I remember correctly from your thread many years ago, that board uses an nVidia chipset. If so... I wouldn't be surprised with this result at all, regardless that it's a SM board. Seems like anything with an nVidia chipset is bound to give trouble at some point. For this reason, I would never use a board with an nVidia chipset anymore as a main system or anything that needs good reliability. Beater system? - Eh... maybe.
                              Wrong dual 940. This one is all AMD chipsets (SM H8DAE). Which means no USB 2.0, PCIe, or native SATA. Or an AGP bridge that is supported by anything that isn't Windows XP x32 (or older) .

                              The system you're thinking of I still have but not currently in use (Main rig V3.8). Only retired because it was stuck on Windows 7 (and due to being SLI "legacy" Nvidia GPUs, wouldn't run up-to-date linux at full power).

                              Originally posted by momaka;1204423[IMG
                              https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/image_cache/0790d61b6e661ae21bcb29502c3ef613.gif[/IMG]
                              Probably makes more sense in the long run at this point than going with something older.
                              The board looks quite well built (well, it's SM and with older Intel CPU + chipset) so it should be quite reliable.
                              "Older" but newer than any non-laptop I have in service (Haswell, Can accept broadwell chips too).
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                                #16
                                Re: Server Upgrade?

                                Here's a comparison of my CPU options:

                                https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare...on-E3-1220L-v3



                                Well then. The first one is my existing setup (only as a twin-CPU setup). The second is what's already in the board I ordered. And the last 3 are the best performing chips in LGA1150 for the various wattages (Broadwell only went down to 35W, the 25W and 13W options are Haswell). If these benchmarks are true, to maintain my current performance anything quad core is a winner... but if I'm OK with losing performance (which probably isn't an issue unless I ever go back to hosting game(s) on it), the 13W special is viable.

                                That said, E3-1265 V4's are unobtainium it seems (no "cheap" ebay listings), so that can be scratched off (and the other Broadwell 47W chips are the same way). And E3-1240L V3's can be found in China for $52 ($69 in the USA). E3-1220L V3 is $35 in the USA... so in terms of $$$ a CPU swap doesn't completely pay-for-itself (if the benchmark annual cost to run is accurate for my area- I really don't know). So, for now, I'll probably leave the 65W i7 as-is unless I run into heat issues (or the financial incentives change).
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                                  #17
                                  Re: Server Upgrade?

                                  Regarding the "old" server: Did some testing today, and made some findings:

                                  -The place I was thinking of mounting the SSD doesn't work. I'll probably just use the existing boot drive spot. Since I'm missing the hotswap board for that bay (and I can't be bothered to spend $100 on a replacement) it's not biggie. I even have an adapter that will allow the use with such a hot swap board if I ever find another for a price that's not highway robbery (this is the first time I've actually seen one in the wild, although I haven't been looking too hard).

                                  -I do need 2U cooler clearance due to where the rear hard drives live. Hoping the stock intel cooler will work... if not, then I'll hunt a dynatron or the like.

                                  -The existing PATA to SATA adapter doesn't like the Intel SSD (which is a 545s, not a 5400 ). Had a range of results between no POST and GRUB whining about HDD access out of bounds. And BIOS couldn't see the drive in any case it did POST.

                                  -While doing some final testing, discovered that the ATA errors are in fact a failing boot drive. . Between that and the SSD incompatibilty, I've shut down the server and likely won't fire it up unless I must. Thankfully, the 4TB image drive does have a backup image of the boot drive that I may need to use.

                                  The last point brings up a question, and that's on migrating the system (Debian) to the drive. I've migrated/cloned arch installs bajillion times, but the few times I've done such on Debian, have only ever used cloning software or done a fresh install and try to copy over settings each time. Not sure what I want to do here... Not thinking of using arch since arch isn't "stable" (although in laptop use I've hardly had issues). Also debating on whether I should stick with MBR or move to GPT (since the new board is UEFI compatible- moving now ensures future upgrade compatibility). I've done that migration on arch before (when I first set up the Lenovo T460s I'm typing this on), but never on Debian... Maybe do a fresh install, reload from the existing package list, and copy over my /etc (other than fstab, obviously)?
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                                    #18
                                    Re: Server Upgrade?

                                    I get confused on what your objective is other to buy more stuff, what function was the old server not providing that you felt you needed to upgrade it?

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                                      #19
                                      Re: Server Upgrade?

                                      Originally posted by brethin View Post
                                      I get confused on what your objective is other to buy more stuff, what function was the old server not providing that you felt you needed to upgrade it?
                                      Looking to future proof a bit and improve reliability without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Yeah a replacement boot hdd would have fixed it... But the fact that I'm limited to older drives is evidence of the bigger issue.
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                                        #20
                                        Re: Server Upgrade?

                                        Tons of older drives can be had for pennies, I have 4 boxes (around 400) of good drives ATA and SATA, I'm sure Topcat has a room full.

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