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Old 07-08-2020, 08:26 AM   #4521
ratdude747
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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Originally Posted by Topcat View Post
Given a box of goodies today. The 'pick of the litter' is a Asus KFN5-D SLI with a pair of Opteron 2.5GHz 2360 quad core CPU's, copper sinks, and 64gb RAM. I even found the IO shield in the bottom of the box. Has several bad UCC KZG caps. I haven't tested it yet....but odds are it'll be fine after recapping. I've never tinkered with an AMD system this recent (940 was my last AMD experience). Kinda looking forward to it. 940-era stuff was rather fickle with quirky chipsets...
The build coming to the case I'm trading off you is based on the SM EATX version of that board. The Nforce Pro 3000 series chipset is good (as was the 2000 series for socket 940).

Hex-core CPUs are cheap (and totally worth it). I paid under $20 for a pair. CPU performance is better than my quad-core harpertown builds, but less than my hex-core Westmere EP's.

She will SLI modern GPUs too... Rocking twin 970's on the future board. The only issue is if you do that, you'll have to use 2-slot cards and you won't be able to run RAID card... although with it being regular ATX, it would be a good fit in a modern case with an SSD (or two in a fakeRAID). If the existing coolers are too loud, the nice thing about AMD is that any 939/940/AM2/AM3 cooler with a clip will fit; CM Hyper TX3's (or the BestBuy Rocketfish clones of such) are a good solution. That's what I like about both of my AMD workstations (my dual 940, and the upcoming Socket F build); they're a lot quieter than my Intel workstations, and that's purely due to cooler options/requirements.

(edit: This board doesn't give you 16x on both slots... lame. Leave it to ASUS to neuter what would have been a killer board!)

Thread to said build (with info on what I am doing on such platform): https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=83481
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Old 07-08-2020, 07:10 PM   #4522
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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(edit: This board doesn't give you 16x on both slots... lame. Leave it to ASUS to neuter what would have been a killer board!)

Thread to said build (with info on what I am doing on such platform): https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=83481
I saw that too. Fine if not a SLI build....but odds are I'd make a little game rig and sell it. If I SLI'd it, that's one of those things that I wouldn't mention, but if asked, certainly wouldn't lie or play dumb about.... 98% of those wouldn't ask.
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Old 07-09-2020, 10:57 AM   #4523
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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I saw that too. Fine if not a SLI build....but odds are I'd make a little game rig and sell it. If I SLI'd it, that's one of those things that I wouldn't mention, but if asked, certainly wouldn't lie or play dumb about.... 98% of those wouldn't ask.
Yeah. Originally all SLI boards were limited to 8 Lanes per slot... but not on either of the two Nforce Pro chipsets (the Socket 940 Nforce pro 2000 was the first to support dual 16 lane SLI, actually).
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Old 07-12-2020, 03:09 AM   #4524
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

More retro goodies:

Gigabyte GA-6VX7B-4X w/ P3 800EB S370
Creative Sound Blaster CT4810 PCI
InnoDV SmartTV PCI TV Tuner (SAA7130 chipset)
ASUS Wireless LAN PC Card (PCMCIA)
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Old 07-13-2020, 12:10 PM   #4525
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

Scored a freebie, should make a real sweet Athlon XP machine after some work:

Case: ANS (Deer) gray case
Mobo: Epox EP-8RDA6+ Pro
CPU: AMD Athlon XP 2500+
RAM: 2x 256MB DDR400
GPU: ASUS Radeon 9200 - going to replace it with a Hercules 9700 Pro 128MB
PSU: ANS LC-B350ATX 350W - thin heatsinks, but at least it's fully populated with parts, so I can simply drop in some better heatsinks from a gutted unit I have and add parts from that
HSF: Aluminium Titan cooler (don't know exact model)

No HDD, but I could care less, since I have enough 80GB drives.
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Old 07-13-2020, 02:53 PM   #4526
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

Since I couldn't seem to edit the previous post, here is the specs as of now

Epox EP-8RDA6+ Pro
Athlon XP 2500+
2x256MB DDR400 (V-Data)
Gecube Radeon 9550
WD 160GB AV Series
HKC 430W PSU (has more guts than the ANS mentioned above, as well as 12cm fan)
NEC DVDRW
Same ANS case, except with a different frontpanel I had from another case with the same frame type
Sound Blaster Audigy SE SB0570 PCI

Only thing left is to either install XP SP3, Vista or 7 (Vista...maybe more for the fun of it) and see how well does it fare. Maybe I'll add some more RAM if it can take it. (I have a Buffalo 1GB stick as well as a 2GB Kingston KVR stick)
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Old 07-13-2020, 07:38 PM   #4527
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

Better get Vista with SP2 pre-integrated. That's the least problematic Vista.
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Old 07-13-2020, 10:00 PM   #4528
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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Better get Vista with SP2 pre-integrated. That's the least problematic Vista.
I might actually try SP1, since that was my first disc of Vista I ever had and which worked really nice and fine for me.

BTW, I might also post pictures of that ANS PSU I took out, hopefully with a before and after mods.
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:04 PM   #4529
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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Originally Posted by ratdude747 View Post
Yeah. Originally all SLI boards were limited to 8 Lanes per slot... but not on either of the two Nforce Pro chipsets (the Socket 940 Nforce pro 2000 was the first to support dual 16 lane SLI, actually).
Now I remember one of my AMD dislikes.....everything runs miserably hot!! I recapped it and it's working well so far though!







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Old 07-15-2020, 06:28 PM   #4530
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

25 or 50 foot extension cord out of a dumpster. Cut ground pin, so it'll need a new mains plug. Barely used, I can still see the contacts in the female end and they're still together.
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Old 07-15-2020, 09:31 PM   #4531
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan81 View Post
Since I couldn't seem to edit the previous post, here is the specs as of now

Epox EP-8RDA6+ Pro
Athlon XP 2500+
2x256MB DDR400 (V-Data)
Gecube Radeon 9550
WD 160GB AV Series
HKC 430W PSU (has more guts than the ANS mentioned above, as well as 12cm fan)
NEC DVDRW
Same ANS case, except with a different frontpanel I had from another case with the same frame type
Sound Blaster Audigy SE SB0570 PCI

Only thing left is to either install XP SP3, Vista or 7 (Vista...maybe more for the fun of it) and see how well does it fare.
Nice board.

And a vote for XP from me.
Why?
- Well, that hardware is pretty much from the XP "golden age" (actually, I'd say the golden age of XP was just a tad later with socket 939 dual core CPUs, but before Vista and Intel Core Duo/Solo came out.) Both Vista and 7 will probably run OK, but I think XP will just be a better experience.

Quote:
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Now I remember one of my AMD dislikes.....everything runs miserably hot!!
It's a 135 Watt TDP CPU you got there. Two of them, to be exact. How else would that system run then?

At least unlike Intel, AMD TDP is actually the maximum power a CPU is expected to pull (vs. Intel, where "TDP" is merely a ballpark under "average loading", or whatever that is supposed to mean.) Intel chips have been more efficient ever since the Core architecture, though.

It also looks like that Opteron is the equivalent of the first gen Phenoms, which did run hot indeed. Phenom II ran a lot cooler in comparison.

Still makes a very capable and decent PC, though.

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25 or 50 foot extension cord out of a dumpster. Cut ground pin, so it'll need a new mains plug. Barely used, I can still see the contacts in the female end and they're still together.
Nice save!
I have a few saved extension cords like that too.
Unfortunately, I really missed out on the warehouse cleanup at my former workplace, where they had one big box with maybe five or six 100-200-foot super heavy duty industrial extension cords (AWG 10 or better). They were sent for metal scrap because most of them had either damaged ground prongs or the cords were just dirty/tangled up - problems that could all have been fixed in less than an hour and save hundreds of $$ on new ones. But no, instead they go to the scrap place, where we get like $5 per box like that, because the cables/wires are considered "low grade" due to "low copper content". And then the bosses have to fire/let go of staff because of "budget concerns".

Last edited by momaka; 07-15-2020 at 09:35 PM..
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Old 07-15-2020, 09:41 PM   #4532
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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It's a 135 Watt TDP CPU you got there. Two of them, to be exact. How else would that system run then?

At least unlike Intel, AMD TDP is actually the maximum power a CPU is expected to pull (vs. Intel, where "TDP" is merely a ballpark under "average loading", or whatever that is supposed to mean.) Intel chips have been more efficient ever since the Core architecture, though.

It also looks like that Opteron is the equivalent of the first gen Phenoms, which did run hot indeed. Phenom II ran a lot cooler in comparison.

Still makes a very capable and decent PC, though.
Strangely enough, it's not the CPU's that are miserably hot (their coolers are monstrous chunks of copper with big fans), it's the fanless northbridge chip....It actually burned my finger! The GPU(s) completely prevent me from being able to install a fan on it (kind of a bonehead design IMO), so I'm not sure what I'll do about that. On the test bench, I just rested a fan against the GPU next to it and it cooled it down....but in a case would be a whole other animal. With a good GPU (or two), this will be a very capable little rig. I'm happy with its performance thus far!
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Old 07-15-2020, 10:51 PM   #4533
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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Strangely enough, it's not the CPU's that are miserably hot (their coolers are monstrous chunks of copper with big fans), it's the fanless northbridge chip....It actually burned my finger! The GPU(s) completely prevent me from being able to install a fan on it (kind of a bonehead design IMO), so I'm not sure what I'll do about that.
Oh I know that scenario all too well.

Can't tell anymore if its the motherboard manufacturers cutting corners or chipset designers not properly disclosing the TDP of their chipsets. But either way, I have seen very few new motherboards that actually have cool-running chipsets. Most of the well-designed boards, in terms of reliability and running cool, were old ones (like VIA, SiS, or old/low-end Intel from Pentium 4 or older era.)

The latest/last nVidia shit-sets... errr sorry, I mean to say -chipsets-... were pure garbage. nForce 2 was probably the last and only good nVidia chipset that didn't need extra cooling and ran reliably (wait, that can't be a coincidence now, right?! )

nForce 3... IDK, TBH. I have one s754 board with that here, though I haven't played with it yet. Going to be doing that somewhat soon, though, so I will know.

nForce 4 and onwards: shit thermal design! nForce / GeForce 6100/6150/6200/7150 MCP was even worse and showed the ugly side of the nVidia "bumpgate era". Seen many boards with these chipsets dead. However, the nForce 680i and 780i take the cake as the hottest garbage. I mean, don't take me wrong, the 680i and 780i chipsets are wonderful in terms of features. But they run so horribly hot and at the same time can't take high temperatures properly like Intel can. So boards with these chipsets are guaranteed failure.

For this reason, I avoid anything with an nVidia chipset as a main rig/PC - they are just too damn unreliable in my experience. AMD is a little better, but still not great. VIA and SiS don't really exist on any modern mobo, so no point in discussing those. So that only leaves Intel really... which is also pointless to mention when talking about AMD boards, as I don't recall there being any AMD board with Intel chipset.

That aside, I'm not sure what nVidia chipset is on your board above, but if it's nVidia, it's probably a closely-related cousin of one of the chipsets mentioned above... and probably has the same design issues too.

Last edited by momaka; 07-15-2020 at 10:57 PM..
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Old 07-16-2020, 03:32 AM   #4534
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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Nice board.

And a vote for XP from me.
Why?
- Well, that hardware is pretty much from the XP "golden age" (actually, I'd say the golden age of XP was just a tad later with socket 939 dual core CPUs, but before Vista and Intel Core Duo/Solo came out.) Both Vista and 7 will probably run OK, but I think XP will just be a better experience.
Well, you absolutely nailed it!

I managed to get 2x 80GB WD800BB IDE in there, and one of them already had an XP SP3 install (I used a custom disc that had integrated SATA + apps on it) from an ASUS M3A78 (still have that board!) machine I had a few years ago.

The other drive was packed full of funny stuff, some classy games (NFS Carbon, Chicken Invaders 3, Neighbours from Hell 1, and a few classic Win3.1/95 games.) and ironically, a VMware virtual machine of XP Pro. Can I call it... XPception?

The 160GB drive needs a format (it has an earlier build of Windows 10 and a few useless files I downloaded) but otherwise everything works fine.

At first I was worried the onboard LAN was zapped, but after I checked the VID and PID for each device, I finally managed to install the PHY drivers, and it worked fine. No idea why it came with a RTL8169 NIC originally (when I got it from the repair shop my friend has, he said he called dibs on the HDD + SATA cables (power and data) and the NIC, since he had shortage on them and I had plenty) if the onboard LAN was working in the first place?

Anyways, the original PSU (ANS LC-B350ATX) is working, although is kinda gutless (as in heatsinks are pretty thin, but in return, they at least had the decency to complete both sides of filtering, AC and DC. The crapcaps are another story, but at least no D-o-a-B for 12v, instead it's a 10A part (can't remember if it was a fast recovery part or a plain rectifier). Not much, but it is a step up from their junk.

I also have the 400W variant of the same PSU, on which I added an aditional 2x SATA chain along the 4x Molex (+1 Berg/floppy connector), bigger transformers from another 300W Deer I discarded (transformers were okay, but the 220V side was kaput, as wel as DON crapcaps galore everywhere), complete line filtering with safety approved X caps. Should've added some MOVs too (since I think the 300W Deer had them too) but I figured that most of what I've done is enough. I also replaced the Su'scon 1000uF/10V caps on 5vSB w/ 2x 1500uF 6.3v Sanyo WFs. The only thing left to do would probably be adding a 7A fuse I found in another Deer (the decent ones seem to have big ass fuses) w/ its respective holder, and maybe an additional filtering PCB if I can find one.


The original GPU has been discarded (ASUS Radeon 9200SE, 128MB I think) for a Gecube Radeon 9550 128MB I recapped (with 2007 Nichicon HMs, originally was FULL of Sacon FZ junk) and so far it works well, though any resolution higher than 1360x768 will result in a "out of range" message on my Samsung LE40M61B. I have a Hercules 3D Prophet 9700 Pro 128MB too, but for some unknown reason it won't work with this mobo. It does work fine on a Gigabyte GA-6VX7B-4X w/ P3 800EB tho.
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Old 07-16-2020, 02:32 PM   #4535
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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I also replaced the Su'scon 1000uF/10V caps on 5vSB w/ 2x 1500uF 6.3v Sanyo WFs.
You might want to undo that.
Sanyo WF, especially 6.3V rated ones, are now on my list of crap caps to never reuse again. Similar to Chemicon KZG, they bulge if left on the shelf unused for a long time... and even with use can still go bad. I saved a buch of 16V 1500 uF ones from Xbox 360 motherboards and also a handful of 6.3V 1500 uF from ECS MCP61 motherboards that I poly-modded. Originally, I though the bulged Sanyo WF caps on the ECS motherboard were due to heat. But then when the few WF caps that were far away from hot spots also bulged, I knew something was cooking. Looking over this forum and elsewhere on the web confirms Sanyo WF is fairly unstable series. As for the 16V 1500 uF Sanyo WF's from the Xbox 360s - those seem to have fared a little better. But every once in a while, I will get a dud that has bulged by itself in my stash of spare caps. This seems to happen regardless if I recondition them regularly or not.

So all in all, I suggest to stay away from Sanyo WF just the same way as Chemicon KZG. But if you really must reuse, then at least try to avoid the 6.3V caps only and use the 16V caps instead. I find the same holds for Chemicon KZG - the 16V caps don't fail anywhere near as much as the 6.3V ones. The 6.3V 3300 uF units are the worst, though - they will just go bad no matter what.

I only keep a few that haven't failed yet for quick test recaps on video cards that may be damaged and not worth wasting caps on if they are. If the cards work, though, I remove these and recap properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan81 View Post
The original GPU has been discarded (ASUS Radeon 9200SE, 128MB I think) for a Gecube Radeon 9550 128MB I recapped
By discarded, I hope you mean put aside for a different build.
While surely the Radeon 9200 SE is a super-weak video card, it does have very good driver support for Windows 9x. So for an old Pentium Pro / Pentium II or AMD K6 PC, these cards will actually perform about as well in DirectX performance as a VooDoo card in Glide. So they are not quite useless.

I'm planning to use my ASUS Radeon 9200SE in a low-end AMD Duron PC - a similar setup to what I had back in the early 2000's, just for nostalgia purposes. Or I might use it on a different Pentium II PC... will see.

Last edited by momaka; 07-16-2020 at 02:35 PM..
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Old 07-16-2020, 03:49 PM   #4536
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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I might actually try SP1, since that was my first disc of Vista I ever had and which worked really nice and fine for me.

BTW, I might also post pictures of that ANS PSU I took out, hopefully with a before and after mods.
There's a legit ISO with SP2 integrated. Even SP1 means issues.
Vista is the one most notorious for CBS errors, IIRC.
(component-based servicing)
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Old 07-16-2020, 09:59 PM   #4537
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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You might want to undo that.
Sanyo WF, especially 6.3V rated ones, are now on my list of crap caps to never reuse again. Similar to Chemicon KZG, they bulge if left on the shelf unused for a long time... and even with use can still go bad. I saved a buch of 16V 1500 uF ones from Xbox 360 motherboards and also a handful of 6.3V 1500 uF from ECS MCP61 motherboards that I poly-modded. Originally, I though the bulged Sanyo WF caps on the ECS motherboard were due to heat. But then when the few WF caps that were far away from hot spots also bulged, I knew something was cooking. Looking over this forum and elsewhere on the web confirms Sanyo WF is fairly unstable series. As for the 16V 1500 uF Sanyo WF's from the Xbox 360s - those seem to have fared a little better. But every once in a while, I will get a dud that has bulged by itself in my stash of spare caps. This seems to happen regardless if I recondition them regularly or not.

So all in all, I suggest to stay away from Sanyo WF just the same way as Chemicon KZG. But if you really must reuse, then at least try to avoid the 6.3V caps only and use the 16V caps instead. I find the same holds for Chemicon KZG - the 16V caps don't fail anywhere near as much as the 6.3V ones. The 6.3V 3300 uF units are the worst, though - they will just go bad no matter what.

I only keep a few that haven't failed yet for quick test recaps on video cards that may be damaged and not worth wasting caps on if they are. If the cards work, though, I remove these and recap properly.


By discarded, I hope you mean put aside for a different build.
While surely the Radeon 9200 SE is a super-weak video card, it does have very good driver support for Windows 9x. So for an old Pentium Pro / Pentium II or AMD K6 PC, these cards will actually perform about as well in DirectX performance as a VooDoo card in Glide. So they are not quite useless.

I'm planning to use my ASUS Radeon 9200SE in a low-end AMD Duron PC - a similar setup to what I had back in the early 2000's, just for nostalgia purposes. Or I might use it on a different Pentium II PC... will see.
I'm not sure, but these came from a Gigabyte mobo (also nF2 but with basic features as opposed to the Epox) and have yet to bulge, and that mobo was in use for a good 17 years. Maybe I misread and could be WGs, since these are the second most common. Will check today and come back with a reply.

KZGs do fail in storage and I already started having my first cases - one is a never recapped ASUS K8V-X SE, where all small ones bulge in storage, and the other was a ECS K7VZA (w/ Chaintech BIOS) that I recapped I didn't have any good caps left for 2 spots on the lower VRM filtering. Both sat in storage. As for WFs, again, never had any of those bulge in storage.

Same issue happened with a MSI P965 Platinum, until I got so fed up with it I recapped it with 1/4 OST RLX w/ 2010 datecode, 1/4 Fujitsu poly caps (around PCI-E x16 slots) and 1/4 Rubycons. Not my brightest choices, I know, but at least much better than the KZGs.

As for the GPU, I threw it into the "for tests" pile. It isn't really worth for anything else, considering a MX440 or even FX5500 do the same job as a 9200SE, the latter even with DX9 support.
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Old 07-19-2020, 11:33 PM   #4538
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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I'm not sure, but these came from a Gigabyte mobo (also nF2 but with basic features as opposed to the Epox) and have yet to bulge, and that mobo was in use for a good 17 years. Maybe I misread and could be WGs, since these are the second most common. Will check today and come back with a reply.
Most likely WG series.
WF came a little later and is basically an equivalent of Rubycon MCZ, Panasonic FL, Nichicon HN, and United Chemicon KZG/KZJ.
I don't remember WG specs off of my head, but I think those were more like Chemicon KZE, Panasonic FM, Rubycon ZL, and Nichicon HD/HC.
Difference between WG and WF: WG is quite stable for the most part, whereas WF is not very stable at all.

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As for the GPU, I threw it into the "for tests" pile. It isn't really worth for anything else, considering a MX440 or even FX5500 do the same job as a 9200SE, the latter even with DX9 support.
True. But the FX line performs horribly with DX9 in games, so that may note be that much of an advantage.
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Old 07-20-2020, 07:25 AM   #4539
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That aside, I'm not sure what nVidia chipset is on your board above, but if it's nVidia, it's probably a closely-related cousin of one of the chipsets mentioned above... and probably has the same design issues too.
Nforce Pro 3000 series (nVidia's offering for socket F).

They do run toasty... hence why both of my SM boards with Nforce pro chips (one is for socket 940, the other for socket F) have fanned chipset heatsinks from the factory. But, at least compared to the other chips available for sockets 940 and F, the Nforce ones were far and wide the best chipsets available. Never had an issue other than a fried socket in a Tyan 940 board (which I think is more of a Tyan problem than an nVidia problem).
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Old 07-20-2020, 01:54 PM   #4540
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Default Re: best cheap/free scores 1.1

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Most likely WG series.
WF came a little later and is basically an equivalent of Rubycon MCZ, Panasonic FL, Nichicon HN, and United Chemicon KZG/KZJ.
I don't remember WG specs off of my head, but I think those were more like Chemicon KZE, Panasonic FM, Rubycon ZL, and Nichicon HD/HC.
Difference between WG and WF: WG is quite stable for the most part, whereas WF is not very stable at all.
Not quite, Sanyo WG = NCC KZG/Nichicon HM. Sanyo WF = NCC KZJ/Nichicon HN. Sanyo WX = NCC KZE/Rubycon ZL/Nichicon HD.

In my experience, only Rubycon MBZ/MHZ (plus MCZ/MFZ if kept cool) and Panasonic FJ/FL made before 2007 were stable as far as ultra-low ESR capacitors go. I think the Sanyo capacitors that came from Dan81’s Gigabyte board are probably the WG series as well. I’d have to agree that pre-2008 KZG are generally the worst storage bulgers as far as Japanese capacitors go.
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