recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

[Agent24]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

Why would you spend $100 for a 'Blue' ESR meter which only displays a 99-digit estimate of the ESR of electrolytic caps, when you could spend $160 for a professional quality, 20,000 digit, dual display LCR meter that measures capacitance from 20pF to 20mF (within 2.5%) using 5 different frequency signals (100, 120, 1k, 10k and 100kHz) along with the D (dissipation factor)/Q (quality factor)/phase angle and ESR, in addition to L (20uH - 2000H) and R (20 Ohm - 2,000MOhm), the Aktakom AMM-3035 from www.tmatlantic.com, which includes $100 worth of meter leads?

Clearly you're a spammer, but this is funny, I just had to respond.

You apparently sell an ESR meter which has a 20,000 digit display? Twenty-Thousand Digits? TWENTY THOUSAND???

Is this kind of accuracy even physically possible?

Also, how many workbenches, nay, workshops, do I have to buy to be able to fit this glorious ESR meter in?

[DDRAMbo]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

Excuse me, I was exhausted last night, and I should have said... '100 count' and '20,000 count'.
I have the Aktakom AMM-3035, the 'Blue' meter (purchased first) and three high quality DMM's, two of which read capacitance, but all three read frequency and resistance. I've been comparing readings with each to assess accuracy. At this point I have only discussed my tentative conclusions with a friend with a degree in EE, so I'm open to other interpretations. If I'm correct, there's a cloud of confusion and distortion surrounding these ESR meters, not only due to the usual 'higher power' of advertising influence and sales integrity -- the 'profit' motive, but also a lack of concern or awareness by folks like Dave Jones of EEVBlog popularity. But, that's another thread.

[Agent24]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

I apologise for calling you out as a spammer, I guess you are not.

It's just when I see someone with a low post count who writes a post that looks like advertising along with strange\funny errors it just really does look like spam.

As for Dave Jones, remember he is a designer, not a repairman.

[Bob Parker]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

Why would you spend $100 for a 'Blue' ESR meter which only displays a 99-digit estimate of the ESR of electrolytic caps...

"Thank you". I put 3 months of my life into designing that ESR meter for my own use and it only went public when we realised its value in electronic repair situations. The reason it's well known is because people have told each other that it does the job, not because of aggressive marketing.

If you believe that it merely "estimates" ESR values and is overpriced, it shows how much electronic knowledge you've got.

[DDRAMbo]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

I know, it's been a while, but I just came by and noticed that the great and powerful Parker had responded to my comments; I thought I'd explain myself.
The BLUE ESR meter that I own was pre-built and I assume calibrated by Mr. Parker's trusted representatives. At least I assume he trusts them to send him checks once in a while. It puts out a wavering frequency of around 760 Hz that varies from 3.3 mV to -3.3 mV, in other words, it's basically an AC voltage. IMO, a meter that wavers this much can only make an 'estimate' for a reading. The Aktakom AMM-3035 puts out very precise frequencies at a steady 6 mV. I can only assume that it is more accurate.
IMO, the scale on the front of the BLUE ESR meter is ridiculous since ESR varies in a non-linear fashion, and even the chart on your previous meter design displays that awareness.
Finally, I've noticed that your BLUE meter plays it 'safe' by giving values that indicate more caps are bad than actually are, meaning that if you replace the ones it says are bad, you will repair the device, but you will probably replace some that aren't bad.

[Bob Parker]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

I know, it's been a while, but I just came by and noticed that the great and powerful Parker had responded to my comments; I thought I'd explain myself.
The BLUE ESR meter that I own was pre-built and I assume calibrated by Mr. Parker's trusted representatives. At least I assume he trusts them to send him checks once in a while. It puts out a wavering frequency of around 760 Hz that varies from 3.3 mV to -3.3 mV, in other words, it's basically an AC voltage. IMO, a meter that wavers this much can only make an 'estimate' for a reading. The Aktakom AMM-3035 puts out very precise frequencies at a steady 6 mV. I can only assume that it is more accurate.
IMO, the scale on the front of the BLUE ESR meter is ridiculous since ESR varies in a non-linear fashion, and even the chart on your previous meter design displays that awareness.
Finally, I've noticed that your BLUE meter plays it 'safe' by giving values that indicate more caps are bad than actually are, meaning that if you replace the ones it says are bad, you will repair the device, but you will probably replace some that aren't bad.

Thank you for your expert thoughts on this subject. I'm really impressed that this forum contains so many knowledgeable people. I've unsubscribed from watching this thread so I won't see anything else on it.

[MDOC]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

I know, it's been a while, but I just came by and noticed that the great and powerful Parker had responded to my comments; I thought I'd explain myself.
The BLUE ESR meter that I own was pre-built and I assume calibrated by Mr. Parker's trusted representatives. At least I assume he trusts them to send him checks once in a while. It puts out a wavering frequency of around 760 Hz that varies from 3.3 mV to -3.3 mV, in other words, it's basically an AC voltage. IMO, a meter that wavers this much can only make an 'estimate' for a reading. The Aktakom AMM-3035 puts out very precise frequencies at a steady 6 mV. I can only assume that it is more accurate.
IMO, the scale on the front of the BLUE ESR meter is ridiculous since ESR varies in a non-linear fashion, and even the chart on your previous meter design displays that awareness.
Finally, I've noticed that your BLUE meter plays it 'safe' by giving values that indicate more caps are bad than actually are, meaning that if you replace the ones it says are bad, you will repair the device, but you will probably replace some that aren't bad.

Hahaha, you're wrong, my friend. The ESR doesn't use that 760 Hz frequency. And it's not AC. I've already done an analysis on it. Take a look here:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...4&postcount=46

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

The Aktakom AMM-3035 puts out very precise frequencies at a steady 6 mV. I can only assume that it is more accurate.

You are totally correct, every reliable company makes a significant effort so the frequency on the ESR meter to be accurate up to the last count and the output in volts to be the same, in all the frequency range that the meter supports ( 100Hz up to 100KHz).

BK Precision / Agilent / DER EE , are brands which they do build their meters with such high standards.
From such devices with accurate and stable output you may expect 20,000 counts resolution and true accurate results.

But here you are unfortunate, your meter is made by the Chinese CEM which is a company known about terribly slow multimeters and unreliable ESR meters which their own tweezers fail on the calibration function of their own meter.

Regarding the Parker box is 20 years old technology, the capacitors industry moved ahead and Mr. Parker left behind with his expectations about to make a fortune from it.

Yes I did made all of you unhappy, if you dislike facing the truth, skip my message and ignore it.

[MDOC]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

You are totally correct, every reliable company makes a significant effort so the frequency on the ESR meter to be accurate up to the last count and the output in volts to be the same, in all the frequency range that the meter supports ( 100Hz up to 100KHz).

BK Precision / Agilent / DER EE , are brands which they do build their meters with such high standards.
From such devices with accurate and stable output you may expect 20,000 counts resolution and true accurate results.

"Totally" incorrect, because, you see, the Aktakom AMM-3035 is an LCR meter without ESR functionality. It's not an ESR meter. In addition, 20,000 counts doesn't make it more accurate. The basic accuracy spec does.

But even there, the "2d" in the spec (and "3d" also) mean up to 3 digits error in the reading (not "counts", the "digits" refer to numbers in the LSD of the readout). No metering device has only a single digit error.

http://www.bkprecision.com/products/...-with-esr.html
Here's a 40,000 count LCR meter, BK Precision 879B. Its basic accuracy is not quite as good, but respectable. 40,000 counts doesn't make it more accurate. It just a quantitative description of its range as it steps through its different ranges. It has nothing to do with meter accuracy.

The Aktakom AMM-3035 LCR has calibration problems, as you said. Here's a video description of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuYKVsTLBRc

[capkid]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

These aren't the best, but I got good deals on them:

- Bought my Fluke 87 III from an electrician on Craigslist for $130. The LCD still had the plastic on it.

- ESR Micro V4: Works fine for my purposes. Very economical price ($70).

- Aoyue 852A++ hot air station: Decent tool. Has a vacuum pickup attachment that I've never used. Paid about $140 a couple years ago.

[MDOC]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

The Aktakom AMM-3035 puts out very precise frequencies at a steady 6 mV. I can only assume that it is more accurate.

I wonder what your response will be after you read this expose on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/review/RO7SLKU...wasThisHelpful

edit: this review is about the AMM-3031

[MDOC]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

You are totally correct, every reliable company makes a significant effort so the frequency on the ESR meter to be accurate up to the last count and the output in volts to be the same, in all the frequency range that the meter supports ( 100Hz up to 100KHz).

This video demonstrates why an ESR need not be terribly accurate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_wbk2F_syg

The analog meter just needs to be in the right scale. So it is with digital displays. But an auto-ranging ESR meter helps.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

why an ESR need not be terribly accurate

All my personal arguments regarding how usable can be one modern LCR is well presented in the DE-5000 product review.

Technology moves forward with extremely fast pace, due this reality it is time for you, to distinguish the information that you are getting as Fresh or Outdated.

[vhr]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

MESR-100 V2.

[MDOC]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

All my personal arguments regarding how usable can be one modern LCR is well presented in the DE-5000 product review.

That's all well and good, but I'm not talking about the LCR. Got nothing to do with it. I'm talking about an ESR meter.

Technology moves forward with extremely fast pace, due this reality it is time for you, to distinguish the information that you are getting as Fresh or Outdated.

No. For one thing, caps a few years old are still populated on boards. For another, although electrolytic cap design may improve, the measured ESR value is just a measure of capacitor degradation, not performance. Over the electrolytic cap's lifetime, they degrade in both ESR and value.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

You are just playing with the words by adding in this conversation wrong personal views about how the planet earth looks like in your own eyes.

Personally I do not care about personal views when there is available base theory so to read, and to educate your self.

LCR BRIDGE is one complex instrument capable to measure at the same time from five up to nine parameters including ESR.

There is no DIGITAL dedicated ESR meter officially ( from respectable brands).
Simply because with out one circuitry that mimics some of the LCR bridge functionality, such measurements it is not possible.

By Choice the industry are using true LCR bridge designs, which gets further improved over time regarding speed and accuracy.
The true professionals need trustful measurements and accuracy.

Some others they like to play around with a tiny box with 2-3 digits on it, and two alligator clips.
I am not one of them, and I will never become like them.

[MDOC]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

You are just playing with the words by adding in this conversation wrong personal views about how the planet earth looks like in your own eyes.

Hardly. You think I'm playin'?

NASA report

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

I am avoiding me & you debates when the other side hides in anonymity.
Post a picture of your face and I will tell you 100% honestly what I believe for you.

[MDOC]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

In response to your request for a picture, the only thing I'll say is I'm older than you. I don't want a debate either, but for different reasons that have nothing to do with anonymity. This medium is a poor source for assessment of character flaws, but there has been foolishness. Have a nice day!

[WWJD]

Re: recommend ESR meter, Multimeter, hot air rework station

I also just bought a 'Bob Parker' ESR meter but for a European like me it's very costly to buy the AnaTek Blue version! Shipment alone was $49 !

So for my fellow Europeans: the 'EVB' ESR meter is also very good and MUCH cheaper than the Anatek one.

• 49 euro's for the kit INCLUDING shipment,
• 59 euro's for the assembled version including shipment

Building the kit was very simpel and fun to do. I did replace the on/off/reset switch for a proper external button version but other than that, it a very good meter and I use it more often than I thought I would.

Ordering was very good also, Vitor responded fast and in 4 days the package from Portugal was in my hands. When I asked some questions, he responded quickly. The included probes are home made but very usable and remember, it does not cost anything extra!

After calibrating, I was amazed to see that is was very accurate.
a 1.0 0,2% Ω resistor measures as 1.0Ω
a 5K6 resistor measured as 5K6-5K7Ω alternating
a 82Ω resistor measures as 82Ω
nice!