Pioneer exits flat-screen TV production market

[Wizard]

Re: Pioneer exits flat-screen TV production market

to a POINT.
and RGB signal is non-standard currently. And you also forgot one important key is timing pulses (sync signals for horizontal and vertical).

Composite is yeech but does have timing data in it.
S-video is better due to more bandwidth space devoted using 2 wires but not capable for 720 and 1080.
ybpbr is 3 wires and have more bandwidth than this and is perfect solution for 480p, 720i/p and 1080i/p plus sync pulses in it.

Fact is, these bigwigs are trying to close analog hole by going DVI and HDMI and other digital interfaces so they can have interlocks programmed in so it can permit or degrade or deny display if certain setting is set by the DVD or Blu that material is on says what can be permitted.

Cheers, Wizard

[Per Hansson]

Re: Pioneer exits flat-screen TV production market

I also have it hooked up via HDMI to my computer
This of course gives a much better picture, nothing beats watching HD movies via HDMI from my computer
But it also should not, since we are talking 480p vs 1080p

I think this Panasonic is very good at SD, and yea, I am very picky (see my complaints on the Sony)

[i4004]

Re: Pioneer exits flat-screen TV production market

>to a POINT.
and RGB signal is non-standard currently.

i dunno if americans had rgb at all on tvs(?)
we had scart(scart usually carries rgb) since late 80s...probably even before...

per, to that extent what's the difference between sd output from pc(via hdmi) and dreambox?
say, for example, that you compare watching .ts files from pc(recordings from dreambox), and watching them via dreambox...

you could do this:
save .ts file (from dream) onto your pc (if you have that set up)
then use dreambox to play that file, while on pc you start same file to be played via pc(and hdmi)
compare the two(which should be easy, as they're playing simultaneously).

if you don't have such setup, i can provide .ts sample which you'll be able to play on both dream and pc....
that way you can inspect rgb vs. hdmi, and perhaps even take few screenshots...

[Per Hansson]

Re: Pioneer exits flat-screen TV production market

Interesting idea, I will try it tomorrow
I've got some, erm, educational movies on the dreambox harddrive :P

[Wizard]

Re: Pioneer exits flat-screen TV production market

RGB is usually found on older high end professional series and some pro-consumer and professional CRT monitors. Consumer units does not and is caused by panel or mainboard down converting the bit depth. I have known of some that used 6 bit panels, MOST 8bits, and newer starting to use 10bit panels. This causes color banding/muddiness due to too shallow bit depth. Minimum is 8 bits and above.

HDMI is just bus and consumer HDMI plug is one link 19 pins 24 bits or 48 bits depth, if you want more bits and more bit depth, need the dual link which is type B HDMI 29 pins.

Type C HDMI is mini plug for portables/cameras utilitizing the HDMI.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

Cheers, Wizard

[i4004]

Re: Pioneer exits flat-screen TV production market

>I've got some, erm, educational movies

ah yeah, the science-fiction! (factual science, but still fiction!)
<wink>

[Per Hansson]

Re: Pioneer exits flat-screen TV production market

Ok, tested playing SD material via the Dreambox through SCART and from the PC via HDMI
The movie I played was Team America World Police, recorded off Canal+ Film in 16:9

I did not see much difference, there did seem to be less compression artefacts via HDMI, but why there would be in the first place via SCART which is lossless I dunno, maybe just too low quality cable?

There was also much richer color via HDMI, but I would not say it looked better than the color I get via SCART, just more, maybe overboard...

Will see how it looks when I connect the Dreambox via YPbPr instead of SCART

[i4004]

Re: Pioneer exits flat-screen TV production market

>I did not see much difference, there did seem to be less compression artefacts via HDMI, but why there would be in the first place via SCART which is lossless I dunno, maybe just too low quality cable?

seems decompression to hdmi and to rgb is handled by two different pieces of hardware(inside receiver), which is understandable, given that hdmi needs no conversion to rgb at all...

offcourse it shouldn't be so(i mean for converter to actually add artefacts?)...but...

compression artefacts are blocking(relatively big blocks) and ringing("mosquito" noise around sharp edges): you saw more of both via scart?

[Wizard]

Re: Pioneer exits flat-screen TV production market

Per Hansson,

Can you detail what kind of TV model you have?

Cheers, Wizard

[i4004]

Re: Pioneer exits flat-screen TV production market

we already did the id part:
http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_G...trackInfo=true
with an E on the end, instead of B(which is probably for britain, and e for europe)
but probably the same thing...

[i4004]

Re: Pioneer exits flat-screen TV production market

my prev. answer about two different pieces of hardware makes no sense, because dreambox edoesn't have hdmi output...

what could be happening is that the player (software on pc) or video card's driver are smoothing out the artefacts to some extent....

[Per Hansson]

Re: Pioneer exits flat-screen TV production market

Yea, you could be right on that
Because the driver I had for my videocard in Win7 made everything look like real crap (like very big pixels)

So I started up Win XP x64 and got very good picture via HDMI...
I now also got the YPbPr SCART cable
It does look better than RGB via SCART, more like the HDMI connection but not so strong colors

I have to underline tho that all 3 of them look very excellent, I have to really try to see what is different... I could probably not get all right in a blindtest

[i4004]

Re: Pioneer exits flat-screen TV production market

all right, so the most pople wouldn't be able to tell the difference in blind test at all...

thanks for all of your tests!

it seems mfrs (or at least panasonic) improved rgb inputs to better match other types of connections...

this should mean a lot to people without hdmi sources...

[ReeceyBurger123]

Re: Pioneer exits flat-screen TV production market

Wander if they will ever return to the tv market ?

[tom66]

Re: Pioneer exits flat-screen TV production market

No, Pioneer is likely to leave the consumer electronics business altogether. They sold a load of it to Funai... yeah, Funai, the Japanese Vestel. They are a Japanese company but they design like stuff is made in China -- absolute garbage.

With modern consumer electronics it truly is a race to the bottom. Quality is not an important factor. Whereas someone used to buy a Japanese stereo or tube TV because it was built well and worth the price premium, with the rate modern technology is replaced, they don't see the point any more.

One interesting change in the TV market has been smart TVs, which have essentially allowed companies like Samsung to market the same technology (crappy LED-LCD TV) with improved software features every year. There's minimal investment in new technology there because people apparently don't care that much about the picture quality.

That was one thing solved by axing plasmas. People bought plasmas for watching -- and they were keeping them for 5+ years because the smart stuff didn't really matter to them.