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    #21
    Re: New Keyboard/mouse suggestions

    I wore out the microswitches under both buttons in my Logitech Anywhere MX....... It uses Omron D2LS-21 switches. D**n shipping is more than 2 switches at $1.65 each so I bought 6 plus other items to make the shipping less than the parts....
    Stupidity should be a crime, especially for drivers. I have NO patience for them.

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      #22
      Re: New Keyboard/mouse suggestions

      Originally posted by redwire View Post
      I'd just replace the Omron D2FC-1-7M microswitch, or worst case take it apart and bend the spring to add tension. It could be a cold solder joint too. https://otwthesis.blogspot.com/2015/...tech-m310.html
      I haven't had mouse switches fail mechanically like that. My M310 has "Kailh" switches. I took the mouse apart (but not the switch), measured the resistance across the contacts, and it suddenly started working. Maybe it just needed more current to break through the oxidation on the contacts (assuming that they're silver). I've revived some tactile switches by making them switch a higher load (around 10mA).

      The one thing I never liked about this mouse is that it has to be moved fairly quickly before the cursor starts moving. If the pointer speed is set to a reasonable level, it's difficult to click on small objects (small at 2560x1440, at least).

      Originally posted by redwire View Post
      I've switched over to a keyboard with Cherry switches and can't go back to anything else. Really loud when I hit the keys hard. CMStorm Trigger Z brown almost like a 5151.
      I don't like loud keyboards (or mice - that's why I don't use that Microsoft wireless mouse).

      Originally posted by RJARRRPCGP View Post
      And BTW, they seem more likely to do that, if you haven't been using them for some time!
      Sometimes they fix themselves when you start using them, like my old Logitech M-S34.

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        #23
        Re: New Keyboard/mouse suggestions

        Originally posted by lti View Post
        I haven't had mouse switches fail mechanically like that.
        I have.
        Years of hard FPS gaming on my Logitech M-S34 did that to its left button. I replaced it before I learned I could re-tension it. When the new button did that, I re-tensioned it. Now it's at a point where the graphite (or copper?) contacts on the spring have become pitted from use and thus oxidize when the mouse is left unused or when there is a lot of air moisture or with use. So once every 2-6 months, I open the left micro-switch and rub it gently with fine sandpaper, then IPA. I've even found a way to do it without fully taking off the spring contact, as it's hard to put it back on.

        Might wonder what's the point on a piece of hardware so old, but that's precisely why. I've owned my Logitech M-S34 mouse for 20 years now. Same with the accompanying Logitech SK-720 [Y-SA2] keyboard. Very comfortable for work use and just does what I want well enough. Don't see why I should spend $20+ on a new keyboard with features I don't need (mainly LEDs... and I HATE all-black keyboards - hard to read in a dark room.) At the same time, most keyboards under $20 tend to be cheap garbage.

        Originally posted by lti View Post
        Sometimes they fix themselves when you start using them, like my old Logitech M-S34.
        Yup, same happens on my M-S34. If I don't use it for a few days, the left switch, due to being very worn out, tends to oxidize and double-click or drop clicks. A little "hard" clicking (more like smashing) on the left button fixes it... for a while. Eventually I have to open it and scrape/sand/clean the micro-switch contacts, as mentioned. PITA, but it's like owning an old vehicle - it just requires more frequent regular maintenance to stay up in shape.

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          #24
          Re: New Keyboard/mouse suggestions

          I think the contacts are supposed to be silver. Omron doesn't list it in their datasheets, but some other manufacturers do.

          I found some nice marketing from Omron:

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            #25
            Re: New Keyboard/mouse suggestions

            I guess I'll finally ask (during lunch): Are there any modern mice that will actually last a while? I don't want to spend $50 (or more) and have the switches fail in less than a year. It won't be used for gaming, and I might not use any extra buttons or special functions. I just want a mouse that tracks well, doesn't have painfully loud button clicks that wake the neighbors, and isn't covered in LEDs. I don't like the idea that a $10 mouse from 2006 is actually better.

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              #26
              Re: New Keyboard/mouse suggestions

              Originally posted by lti View Post
              I guess I'll finally ask (during lunch): Are there any modern mice that will actually last a while? I don't want to spend $50 (or more) and have the switches fail in less than a year. It won't be used for gaming, and I might not use any extra buttons or special functions. I just want a mouse that tracks well, doesn't have painfully loud button clicks that wake the neighbors, and isn't covered in LEDs. I don't like the idea that a $10 mouse from 2006 is actually better.
              I have a few different types of mice for different needs. E.g., a Sun machine might need a serial mouse, one of my EDA machines needs three REAL buttons, other boxes are PS2. Some are wireless. etc.

              [And that doesn't count other "pointing devices" and "motion controllers"]

              For my workstations and most of the day-to-day machines that I use, I just use a run-of-the-mill Dell 2-button+wheel mouse. This allows every machine to give me the same "feel" (I also use Dell 8135 -- I think -- keyboards).

              I buy the mice in lots for < $1/each -- used. I don't think I've had to discard any of them, yet (though the wheels sometimes start acting finicky). Note the wear marks on the switch surfaces for the mouse on this machine...
              Attached Files

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                #27
                Re: New Keyboard/mouse suggestions

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                For my workstations and most of the day-to-day machines that I use, I just use a run-of-the-mill Dell 2-button+wheel mouse.
                I think I have the ball-version of that. If the internals are anything similar... it's an OK mouse. What I don't like about it - at least on the ball version - is the micro switches. It uses those square, push-button style types. In my experience, they don't last as long. The regular rectangular ones (not sure what the case is called) generally do a lot better - even low-end ones from cheap Chinese manufacturers.

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                This allows every machine to give me the same "feel" (I also use Dell 8135 -- I think -- keyboards).

                I buy the mice in lots for < $1/each -- used.
                Yup, I did the same a few years ago: bought a box of used Logitech M-S69 for literally the price of shipping. (Actually, they were all branded as "Wise"... but Dell, HP, and many other OEMs used them too, and they are indeed made by Logitech.) Most of them needed cleaning/de-greasing. But apart from that, they all ended up working fine. These are older ball mouse from the turn of the millenium. But they have very good tracking - better than most cheap laser/optical ones from that era, which often tended to be "jumpy" or have terrible tracking and DPI. They also use the rectangular switches I mentioned - and not just that, but they are Omron brand, too. Haven't had a single one mis-click or double-click from use / switch wear.

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                  #28
                  Re: New Keyboard/mouse suggestions

                  Originally posted by momaka View Post
                  I think I have the ball-version of that. If the internals are anything similar... it's an OK mouse. What I don't like about it - at least on the ball version - is the micro switches. It uses those square, push-button style types. In my experience, they don't last as long. The regular rectangular ones (not sure what the case is called) generally do a lot better - even low-end ones from cheap Chinese manufacturers.
                  No idea. I've never had a problem with the buttons -- though the wheels seem to "jitter".

                  I gave up on ball mice due to the hassle of cleaning the damn things so often. Caked up crud on the little rollers. Easy to clean but a PITA as it's never a problem when you're NOT USING IT :>

                  Yup, I did the same a few years ago: bought a box of used Logitech M-S69 for literally the price of shipping. (Actually, they were all branded as "Wise"... but Dell, HP, and many other OEMs used them too, and they are indeed made by Logitech.) Most of them needed cleaning/de-greasing. But apart from that, they all ended up working fine. These are older ball mouse from the turn of the millenium. But they have very good tracking - better than most cheap laser/optical ones from that era, which often tended to be "jumpy" or have terrible tracking and DPI. They also use the rectangular switches I mentioned - and not just that, but they are Omron brand, too. Haven't had a single one mis-click or double-click from use / switch wear.
                  One of the local auctions has a "laundry hamper" (imagine some guy in a hotel collecting bed linens from all the rooms and bringing them down to the laundry) that is full of keyboards. Another full of mice. Everything is $1/ea.

                  But, periodically, they will sell the entire "hamper" -- for $7 (!).

                  Of course, you then have to take ALL of the contents home with you and dispose of what you don't want. You'd spend an eternity untangling cords!

                  That's too much work so I just cherry-pick "identical" mice and buy them at the $1 price -- when they AREN'T trying to sell the entire hamper as a lot.

                  Bad luck if you need a mouse and there's tape covering the top of the hamper indicating that you have to buy ALL or nothing! <frown>

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                    #29
                    Re: New Keyboard/mouse suggestions

                    Originally posted by momaka View Post
                    What I don't like about it - at least on the ball version - is the micro switches. It uses those square, push-button style types. In my experience, they don't last as long. The regular rectangular ones (not sure what the case is called) generally do a lot better - even low-end ones from cheap Chinese manufacturers.
                    Are these the square ones?
                    https://na.industrial.panasonic.com/...30/model/79472
                    My two Microsoft mice use those. I still need to find the quiet ones that the Wheel Mouse Optical has. I'm going to try those Panasonic switches first.

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Re: New Keyboard/mouse suggestions

                      Originally posted by lti View Post
                      Are these the square ones?
                      https://na.industrial.panasonic.com/...30/model/79472
                      My two Microsoft mice use those. I still need to find the quiet ones that the Wheel Mouse Optical has. I'm going to try those Panasonic switches first.
                      Yup, those are it.
                      Inside, they contain a lens/prism-like metal plate that is essentially what makes up the contact mechanism when the button is pressed. What I don't like about these is that the metal plates inside will sometimes oxidize (typically on the cheaper-made switches) on the edges and then start to miss- or double-click. Also, the plate wears down faster and becomes soft with time, making the switching action weak - at least compared to the rectangular switches seen in older mice.

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                        #31
                        Re: New Keyboard/mouse suggestions

                        Originally posted by momaka View Post
                        Yup, those are it.
                        Inside, they contain a lens/prism-like metal plate that is essentially what makes up the contact mechanism when the button is pressed. What I don't like about these is that the metal plates inside will sometimes oxidize (typically on the cheaper-made switches) on the edges and then start to miss- or double-click. Also, the plate wears down faster and becomes soft with time, making the switching action weak - at least compared to the rectangular switches seen in older mice.
                        Those are just tactile switches instead of snap-action microswitches.

                        I ended up getting the "pro" re-release of the Intellimouse. It works, but the left and right buttons are loud. The pictures I've seen show the 20 million cycle version of the Omron D2FC-F-7N, so maybe they're louder than the standard version or the enclosure amplifies the noise.

                        Comment


                          #32
                          Re: New Keyboard/mouse suggestions

                          Have you ever considered buying a silent mouse? The mouse clicking just gets annoying especially when youre playing a game with high apm. If youre looking to buy one, you should check this website.

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                            #33
                            Re: New Keyboard/mouse suggestions

                            I've never felt the need to get a silent mouse. This new Intellimouse is louder than average, but it isn't terrible. The Microsoft Wireless Mobile Mouse 3500 is the only mouse I've found that was completely unusable due to noise. I tried to use it in Altium Designer once, and I got a headache after about 30 seconds due to the noise (and the extreme number of mouse clicks required to do anything in Altium - I hope there are more keyboard shortcuts that I haven't found because I keep killing left mouse buttons).

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                              #34
                              Re: New Keyboard/mouse suggestions

                              I finally got those Panasonic EVQP0E07K switches, and they didn't make the Wireless Mobile Mouse 3500 as quiet as I hoped. The old switches (which were also made by Panasonic) are much louder than the new ones when operated outside of the mouse, but the difference isn't that great when the mouse is reassembled. I don't know if the "silent" switches will help since those Panasonic switches are extremely quiet outside of the mouse. I does seem to be quieter, and I was able to replace the cheap tactile switch for the middle button with one of those Panasonic switches. They're almost the same height, but the leads need to be straightened because the holes in the PCB are smaller.

                              Also, I learned that the gray buttons are actually painted plastic, and isopropyl alcohol takes the paint off.

                              Comment


                                #35
                                Re: New Keyboard/mouse suggestions

                                LOL.
                                I've never been bothered by the "loud" clicking of any mouse.
                                If anything, my M-S34 are pretty loud, and I like it - gives a very reassuring response that I've clicked on something. Same with good rubber dome and mechanical keyboards. I like the extra sound feedback I get. Quiet keyboards and mice are OK, but not as satisfying when I do work. The former make me feel like I am doing more work than I am.

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                                  #36
                                  Re: New Keyboard/mouse suggestions

                                  Can in 100% recommend:
                                  KLIMâ„¢ AIM Gaming Mouse - Wired Ergonomic Gamer USB Computer Mouse, Chroma RGB [7000 Dpi] Wired Mouse Ergonomic
                                  https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

                                  with
                                  KLIMâ„¢ RGB Chroma Mousepad USB, 38.4 x 30.6 x 2.2 cm - Black with Lighting Effect
                                  https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

                                  Comment


                                    #37
                                    Re: New Keyboard/mouse suggestions

                                    Originally posted by momaka View Post
                                    LOL.
                                    I've never been bothered by the "loud" clicking of any mouse.
                                    If anything, my M-S34 are pretty loud, and I like it - gives a very reassuring response that I've clicked on something.
                                    My M-S34 isn't very loud. It's about the same as other generic mice that come with computers. That one Microsoft mouse actually pissed off everyone around me when I tried to use it around other people.
                                    Last edited by lti; 06-11-2020, 08:10 PM.

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