Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

[Khron]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

I quite doubt it's worth bothering with replacing the headphone amps. If you'll recall that link with the opamp measurements, when used properly (in this case, as current buffers / boosters), 4556's are just fine for 'phones

Kinda makes sense though, 2122's are the main gain elements, so they'll have the greatest influence, i suppose.

The most tell-tale test would be 2-3 matched mics, put through separate inputs in various modding stages

[PhilippHoeger]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

I couldn't figure out how many and which opamps work on the monitor out.
What opamp numbers are these on the saffire 40 ? how can I find out on this multi-layer board?!
Looks as if the mains were fed from the 4392 chip

[Khron]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

Yes, the 4392 is a stereo DAC (the other 4 chips are stereo CODECs = ADC/DAC combos).

Now, at least on my 40, if you look at the photo from the first post, if my eyes don't deceive me, in that group of 12 opamps in the middle of the board, the first column of 4 from the left, are the output buffers / low-pass filters for the DAC's - one half of a dual op-amp per channel. You can see the traces coming from under them, and going to the output section.

The other 8 i suspect to be the balanced drivers for the ADC inputs. Those small electrolytics are most likely the input caps to those, because the outputs of those opamps have to be centered around the Vcom of the ADC's.

The rest of the opamps up top, near the output jacks, most likely make up the balanced line drivers.

[PhilippHoeger]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

managed to follow the multilayer pcb traces with a bright flashlight
seems a bit different on the 56. on the main board there are:
5 opamps pushing the 4392 signal for the mains (Out 1/2)
4 opamps for the 4 other stereo outs each (Outs 3/4 5/6 7/8)

this makes a total of 21 output opamps. excluding headamp

[PhilippHoeger]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

Conclusion after changing all output opamps:

I've swapped in 5 LM4562 on the monitor main output (1/2)
Outputs 3-10 got NE5532 all over because I rarely use them and these were pretty cheap too.
Before there were NJM4565 on all outputs.

I'm really impressed with the LM4562. Bass and Mids are very rich and detailed.
The NJM4565 lacked some Bass and lots of Mids in comparison although they were very! detailed in the highs I think, somehow a bit too much on the bright side making them fatiguing. But loved their attack.

The NE5532 sounds just fine. Nothing special, nothing outstanding. I'd say they're flat, honest and natural.

It's a whole new device. Did not expect to hear so much difference with all the little steps and I think I could really get addicted to modding things

So finally, I'm finished with this. Thank you for your help. You're all invited to take a listen

[rapido]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

Not to sound lazy, but would anybody be willing to make a BOM for the PSU upgrade and opamp/cap upgrade in a post beneath?

Not links or anything, just it all gathered in one post, as I don't have time at the moment to pull out my saffire and check. (getting used heavily and are sitting in rack with every connections used).

Im trying to comprehend all the posts here, but I'm afraid that I will forget something/wrong amounts, when placing my order at digikey.

[rapido]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

Okay think I got all the caps written down. But one think confuses me.

You mention replacing 2122's & NJM4565.
You replace both with LM4562 right?

And what are the 16 pin packages at the inputs? analog switches or?

On the pictures I can't read the packages, so if anyone could help with how many op amps I should order it would be a great help.

I have a saffire 40, and want all in/outs modded.

[Khron]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

If i understood correctly, Philipp replaced only the NJM2122's with LM4562's (since those are the main gain elements in the preamps). Most of the rest of the opamps (NJM4565's), if not all, are merely buffers.

Replacing ALL the opamps with 4562's will be pricey, to say the least Not to mention that i'm quite sure it'll be far beyond the "point of diminishing returns" As i've mentioned on the first page, i've quite got my mind set on (someday) replacing all the opamps with NJM2068's - cheap and really low-noise

Yes, the 16-pin IC's near the inputs are analog switches indeed, no need to worry about those. They most likely use some switches inside the input jacks to route the signal through the (high-gain) mic preamps or the (lower-gain) line preamps.

Regarding opamps - there are 8 (eight) NJM2122's (SOIC-8 wide, with the gray writing), 2 (two) TL072's (SOIC-8 narrow, in the lower left, FET input for the Hi-Z inputs), and all the rest of the 8-pin IC's are NJM4565's - in the picture from my first post i count 24 (twenty-four). That breaks down into 4 (four) for the 8 inputs (they're dual opamps), 12 (twelve) for the ADC/DAC input/output buffers and filters, 7 (seven) opamps for the 10 balanced output drivers (and something else?), and one more with unknown role just below the main DICE processor.

[PhilippHoeger]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

I replaced the 5 the main output opamps for LM4562 .
All input opamps inclunding buffers were changed to 4562, too. Changing the input buffers did not make a huge improvement. As Khon said, replacing the 2122's (preamp gains) is just fine.

But also swapped in some NE5532 all remaining NJM4565.

[rapido]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

Thanks for summing it up.
Really looking forward to doing this mod.

[rapido]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

I see the recap you did used Panasonic and rubycon for the audio part.
You think using Elna Silmic II or Nichicon Muse's would be worth it to use instead?

[Khron]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

As you may (or may not) have read on the first page, i'm not a believer in the whole "awe-diophile" / "audiophool" nonsense with capacitors "for audio". I just used what i had available in my stock of parts

[rapido]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

Yeah I read that.
I must say I'm not sure I believe the hype either, but I just read so many posts and tests around the internet with electrolytic cap comparisons for audio signal paths, that I can't get it out of my head and ignore it completely.

[Khron]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

I'd reeeeeeeeeeally be curious about some head-to-head comparisons ("audio" caps versus some normal (but "good" brand) electrolytics, used as coupling caps. "Head-to-head" meaning two identical devices, the only differences being those coupling caps. Y'know, double-blind ABX testing, or at least some measurements...

[aaronrash]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

Hi,

everyone, this is my first post here. I have a Saffire Pro 24 that has the same OpAmps you guys have in the 40.

I'm planning on doing the mods. Is there any BurrBrown chips I could use for the opamps that would fit instead of the LM? I know BLA mods the Saffire and they use BurrBrown chips.

I also checked out the AD/DA chip.

Also noticed the CapXon caps, those are coming out!

[Khron]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

Not that BB/TI chips aren't good, but i really doubt they're worth the expense.

You really can't go wrong with the venerable old NE5532 (or the JRC version, NJM5532). I myself got a few dozen NJM2068's off fleabay, a few months back. No idea if/when i'll get around to replacing the opamps as well in my Pro 40, but that's what i'm planning to use

You'll wanna stick with some FET-input opamps for the Hi-Z inputs on 1 and 2, though (stock there's 1 or 2 TL072's there).

Actually, if one ventures to replace the NJM2122 chips, at least in theory, one could also adjust (read: increase) the LM317/337 output voltage for the analog stages. The datasheet of the '2122 mentions it needs supply rails of max +/-7V due to power/heat dissipation - the block diagram shows what looks to me like a class-A output stage. On the other hand, if that limitation goes away (by replacing the 2122's), one could increase the analog rails up to, say, +/-10v, or even 12, with no concerns - one effect being a lowering of the noise floor (but i might be wrong, so don't quote me on this )

[aaronrash]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

Cool,

I am just going to change all the opamps and 2122's with LM4562's. I know it will be pricey to do them all but I don't mind spending a little extra and I'll feel better about it. It sounds like the caps make a big difference too. I will replace them all.

I have been doing regular soldering for years but I have never done SMD. what is the best way to get the components off the board? I'm going to buy a rework gun. Also what is the best temperature to operate at? I would be a little worried to damage the board.

Awesome thread, I'm glad I found this!

[Khron]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

For chip removal, you'll wanna set the hot air to about 350-400C, and the airflow to about 50% - you want to get the chips off as quickly as possible Might wanna thing about wrapping some tinfoil over the caps around the chips, as a heat-shield; or if you'll be recapping it as well, in one fell swoop, disregard this last tip

Once the chips are off, a nice hot soldering iron (~330C), with a flat tip, and some solder-wick, to clean the pads, and you're golden Soldering SOIC-8 chips is no big deal - after positioning it, get a bit of solder on the tip of the iron, hold down the chip with a pair of tweezers or something, and tack one of the corner pins onto the board, then the opposite corner. Smooth sailing after that

[aaronrash]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

For chip removal, you'll wanna set the hot air to about 350-400C, and the airflow to about 50% - you want to get the chips off as quickly as possible Might wanna thing about wrapping some tinfoil over the caps around the chips, as a heat-shield; or if you'll be recapping it as well, in one fell swoop, disregard this last tip

Once the chips are off, a nice hot soldering iron (~330C), with a flat tip, and some solder-wick, to clean the pads, and you're golden Soldering SOIC-8 chips is no big deal - after positioning it, get a bit of solder on the tip of the iron, hold down the chip with a pair of tweezers or something, and tack one of the corner pins onto the board, then the opposite corner. Smooth sailing after that

Thanks!

So I've got the hot air rework station ordered as well as the LM4562 Opamps... I'm clueless about a few things though

I'm not sure witch values to change what to as far as caps go because the layout is totally different on the pro 24 vs the pro 40.

Basically my biggest complaint with the Saffire is the high mid frequencies... The feel very unfocused and somewhat "mushy".

I used to own a Lynx Aurora 16 and loved the way it sounded, it was very easy to pick out different preamps etc... but with the Saffire I can barley hear a different between my Neve 1084 and the stock preamp inside the unit. I'm guessing this must be the Focusrite to blame.

Since I'm only using it to track vocals for now I was actually just planing on modding Line in 3 analog path. But it sounds like changing the caps makes a big difference too, so I want to do whatever is necessary to get a more accurate sound.

[aaronrash]

Re: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 re-cap

Here are the caps around the AD/DA chip. They are all 10uF/16V.

I'm wondering what I should change these to?