I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

[PlainBill]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

A number of manufacturers give equations to get from Load Life to LifeSPAN.
[Which further shows they are not the same thing.]

The problem is those equations are only good to +/-40%. (Some of them state this when they give the equation.)
So, you do all the math and come up with 10 years. (10-20 years would be typical.)
It -really- means: "somewhere between 6 and 14 years".
- NOT USEFUL for any PRACTICAL purpose.

Anyone with any experience knows quality brand 105C caps last 10, 15, 20 or more years.
The equipment will be obsolete before the caps are even close to wearing out.
- That is REGARDLESS of their Load Life rating.
Thus - worrying about the Load Life rating is A WASTE OF TIME.

~~~
That said:
Temp changes the Load Life and LifeSPAN by the same percent.
[This is because temp is in the same place in both correction equations.]
So: If you double Load Life the you also double LifeSPAN.
.

One omission, PCBONEZ.

quality brand 105C caps

should have been in bold face type.

PlainBill

[PCBONEZ]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

One omission, PCBONEZ. should have been in bold face type.

PlainBill

Not necessarily.
I rather doubt the 45 year old caps in my old Ford's original AM radio are 105C and they are probably not a Jap brand either.
And ya know what... It still works fine.
.

[PlainBill]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

Not necessarily.
I rather doubt the 45 year old caps in my old Ford's original AM radio are 105C and they are probably not a Jap brand either.
And ya know what... It still works fine.
.

So you are saying your statement in post 40 was incorrect.

PlainBill

[PCBONEZ]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

So you are saying your statement in post 40 was incorrect.

PlainBill

No.
I didn't say anything that remotely conflicts with post 40.

Anyone with any experience knows quality brand 105C caps last 10, 15, 20 or more years.
The equipment will be obsolete before the caps are even close to wearing out.
- That is REGARDLESS of their Load Life rating.
Thus - worrying about the Load Life rating is A WASTE OF TIME.

.
The point was even mediocre caps last a butt-ton longer than the Load Life rating so worrying about the Load Life rating is STILL a WASTE OF TIME.
.
IOW: Worrying about the Load Life rating is ALWAYS a waste of time.
.
Anyone that actually knows what that spec is would know that.
.

[nightstar]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

For the record I am not counciling anyone to "Worry about the Load Life rating". I am however pointing out that a capacitor with a longer endurance rating should last longer under identical conditions

Endurance rating is by MTBF(mean time between failure) which means when 50% of the sample group no longer performs to specification under test conditions. You may claim that the ratings of one make are fraudulent(CapXon?) or another manufacturer(Rubycon?) under-rates their caps but you have not stated this, only hinted that some capacitors are superior. To argue that the rating itself isn't relevent is obviously, demonstrably wrong and does not make you seem credible or clever. Nor does it serve to educate any who may read this thread.

If you would like to refute my actual arguments I'll continue the debate.

Please state clearly what it is that you claim, support the claim and when you do try to refrain from fallacy such as:

"Anyone with experience knows" Argumentum ad populum

"Do you ~really~ think the LifeSPAN of Rubycon MBZ is only 2000 hrs?" Red Herring

And while we're on the topic of logic I'll address your 10C reduction = doubled life claim via Reductio ad absurdum.

If what you claim is true then a capacitor rated from -55C to 105C will have twice the endurance ant -55C than at -45C you see? Approximation and generalization can be expediant but expedience is not necesarrily accurate now is it? I'ts much more likely that reducing the operating temperature by 10C from maximum grants twice the endurance and the next 10C something less and so on until further reductions actually result in reduced endurance.

Critical thinking, it's a useful skill.

Good day.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

For the record I am not counciling anyone to "Worry about the Load Life rating". I am however pointing out that a capacitor with a longer endurance rating should last longer under identical conditions

No it doesn't.

Endurance rating is by MTBF(mean time between failure)

No it isn't.

The Endurance rating is the result of a formal Industry Standard test and is not related to MTBF at all.
- Not even a little bit.
There is in fact NO FAILURE involved with an Endurance test at all.

Basically the test involves running the cap with everything at it's limit for x-many hours.
Then the cap is then returned to 20C.
The caps parameters can not be out of specifically defined limits after the test.
Specifically those are:
- DC Leakage must be at the initially specified value.
- Capacitance +/-20% of the initially specified value.
- DF/ESR must be less than 2x the initially specified value.

There is no assumption or prediction made as to how long the cap will stay in spec -after- experiencing the conditions in this test at all.
- NONE.

The Endurance test tells you NOTHING AT ALL about how long the cap will last in use.
NOTHING. ZERO. ZIP.

The Endurance test ALSO tells you NOTHING AT ALL about how long the cap will last -in- those test conditions because they don't run them to a point of failure.

ALL an Endurance test result says is in worst case conditions the cap will last 'at least this long'.
That's ALL it says.

It in NO WAY implies the cap is expected to fail after that amount of time - as you (and most people) seem to think.
That would be called a Wear Out test. - And manufacturers don't publish those.
.

[dennylee]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

I have been researching this Site for sometime and I have the same EXACT power supply as AloofOne However, it is in a Hanns-G. I would like to replace all the caps except for the Large 450v180uf. I am in Washington State, Here are the specs...please forgive how I give the Info.
C0823---50v10uf--105c(HW)p---4 each---5mmx12mm
C0837---35v33uf--105c(PW)P---1 each---5mmx12mm
C0841---10v220uf-105c(PW)P---2 each---6mmx12mm
89R-----16v1000uf-105c(KZH)---1 each---8mmx20mm

[dennylee]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

also:89S---16v1000uf-105c(KZH)---1 each---8mmx20mm
C0839(M)-25v220uf--105c(HD)P--1 each---8mmx15mm
3M0822--Pet--25v680uf-105c--(YXG)--2 each--10mmx20mm
8(7) 9I---35v1000uf--105c--(M)ky---2 each---13mmx20mm
14 caps total I would like to replace. None show physical signs of damage, however, posts indicate failure. How do I order these from BadCaps ?

[mockingbird]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

Somebody already replaced your caps...

Except these:

C0823---50v10uf--105c(HW)p---4 each---5mmx12mm

Please be more specific about these caps. I think these are Taicon HW.

Also, list the caps from the logic board. Those will probably need replacing as well.

[dennylee]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

Okay mockingbird, I will get the logic Board info....However this is a New Monitor which waranty runs out on Feb 5,2012. I broke the seal myself. Unless they replaced them at the factory I believe they have never been replaced. Anyway, better safe than sorry, I do not mind spending the bucks to replace all 14. I gave all info that is on the caps and I do not know how to tell who makes them usless it is by color. It would cost wayy to much to send it to Calif.. hence Cap repair. Thank you.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

KZH and KY
Those series names are either Sam Young or Chemicon.
They sometimes use the same series names because the compaines are affiliated.
~ But the their caps aren't the same quality.
[You can think like they use the same recipe book but use different ingredients.]
.
Chemicon - good.
Sam Young - iffy.
.
Chemicons have a logo that looks like a shield.
Sam Young has used various logos.
[Some older Sam Young might have a Chemicon logo with a dot in the center. Chemicon made them stop using that one. Was too close to theirs.]
.
.
.
PW, HD
Basically the same deal but either Nichicon or Taicon.
.
Nichicon - good
Taicon - iffy
.
These both just print the name on the side.
.
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If they are Chemicon and/or Nichicon they have probably already been replaced and should not need to be replaced again.
[Unless they are bloated of course...]
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If they are Sam Young and/or Taicon they might be what the screen came with and it's a good idea to swap them out.
Those are a little better than Capxon but no where near as good as Chemicon or Nichicon.
.
.

[mockingbird]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

You are right PCBONEZ, but the YXG is a giveaway... Where did he get YXG from though? Newark is the only one that stocks it and they'll only sell you thousands at a time. What would be interesting is if he repaired it with fakes.

[dennylee]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

No luck..on the Logic Board,Caps sealed down to Board,attempted to remove sealant and lost info underneath. I am more concerned with the power supply at this point...only 4 caps (all the same) on logic board IF I need to replace then I will release them and find a way to clean off the sealant, I can read 35v and a 0 on the end of the uf and that is all...Maroon in color. Humbly, I will start with the PS.

[mockingbird]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

Picture of the board would help. I want to see the caps...

If they are all legit, I would probably replace the small Taicon "HW" caps...

The logic board caps are also very important.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

You are right PCBONEZ, but the YXG is a giveaway... Where did he get YXG from though? Newark is the only one that stocks it and they'll only sell you thousands at a time. What would be interesting is if he repaired it with fakes.

I've occasionally seen YXG mixed in with craps as original.
[AOpen actually does it a lot on mobos.]
.
And not everyone does a 100% recap.
.
And as we know, some people will 'upgrade' Capxon to Taicon - and things like that.
.
Since I dunno who recapped it, I figure it's best to cover all the bases.
.

[dennylee]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

All info on the Caps including the yxg,ky,etc. wrote them down for each individual cap and posted it to the Mavens..not knowing the proper order to post I shotgunned the info. hoping you would be able to place it in the proper order. The Maroon 450v180uf is a Nippon/chemi-con but not being replaced. Ha...I see the symbols on the others will post later. Thanks

[dennylee]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

The logic board had nippon\chemi-con caps. On the PS: green Taicon for the:50v10uf, 35v33uf,10v220uf,25v200uf. Maroon nippon\chemi-con for the:16v1000uf,& 35v1000uf. Black Rubycon for the:25v680uf (yxg). Whew! Any suggestions on what to use to remove the sealant on the logic board caps ???? And this monitor was purchased directly from New Egg and shipped New to me not a refurb or a second so all caps from the factory... best of my knowledge.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

I think if it's still under warranty I'd send it back.
Unless you just -want- to fix it yourself.
.

[mockingbird]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

If you post something like this, it would be very helpful:

PSU:
1) Taicon 50V 10uF "HW" 5x11mm
2) etc...

Sealant? What do you mean? You mean that hard tack? Use a blade. Don't lose the markings on the logic board caps.

It's also necessary to know which caps are part of the pi filter, that's why a pic would be very helpful.

[dennylee]

Re: I-Inc IF281D Display Problem

My bad the hard tack was on the inverter board which has: 4 nippon 35v270uf 8mm x 15mm on them..I did get is off. The caps are on their side same as pic AloofOne posted. So far our monitors are the same. I have the PS out and on my Computer desk but have not pulled the Logic board.