netflix, the network destoryer

[BigTroll]

Am I the only one sick of netflix? my job is doing internet tech support for a local wisp and all i do is hear people bitch about speeds and i have seen the more people get netflix the more it brinds our network down. I have ATT dsl at home a 3.0 plan that gets 2.5 at best, now at night iam speed testing to various servers and get 1.05mbps which is total bullshit, i never used to have these speed problems a few months ago, i noticed the decline in atts service has seemed to follow at the same rate of our wisp network. i would think everyone buying roku boxes and using their game consoles to do netflix is bringing down the att in my area...
end rant

I would like to hear some thoughts opinions on network load and if your isp has been in a gradual decline.

[brethin]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

When providers stop overselling bandwidth they cant support this will end. It is a old problem with all providers. The influx of people streaming media and actually using the full bandwidth they pay for has just made the problem more noticable. You cant blame Netflix, you cant blame other users, you can only blame the provider. That is why they dont promise a set constent speed unless you actually pay for it as in ISDN or T1 type services.

[toastygoodness]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

lol mostly bandwidth. but i haven't really had any problems with cable, though that's probably because our street is a new node. i have noticed with a lot of my friends that have att dsl that their speed's been going down too.

i'm a big fan of netflix though.

[weirdlookinguy]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

I think this is excellent. Will force internet providers to upgrade their capacity and speed.

[japlytic]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

I believe that Netflix, and other video on demand (VOD) services, as well as IPTV should be unmetered and not contribute to your allowance. This can break down barriers for new providers to enter the market.

[BigTroll]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

yeah i agree with you guys that its a neat service, however ATT will probably not upgrade shit, at our work we are still waiting on ATT to finish installing our fiber lines as were susposed to get a gigabit of bandwidth added. again my last call of the night was a guy bitching about speeds, aparently his CPE (antenna) was in 10base T HD so some stupid tech left it in that so i put it in 100 base full duplex and changed the channel from 5.1ghz channel 44 to 5.3ghz channel 64 and sure enough i got 2.8mps according to his speed tests, he is also on a 3.0 plan and was bitching hes not getting what he pays for, i tried to explain that our policy is that you can expect bursts to 3.0 and speeds will vary but he kept arguing and he was one of the more tame customers, i used to love my job but the speed issues have made it a nightmare.

[NxB]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

ISPs are cheap. They won't upgrade anything and have been ripping us off with a broadband tax that didn't go to the infrastructure.

ATT is the WORST offender. Their DSL is bottom of the barrel stuff. Their wireless service is chincy and expensive. 90% of their home customer base is ignorant, the other 10% have no other choice.

All over asia and parts of europe you can get 50mbps service for what we pay for like 3. I can't even buy internet service faster than 15mbps here unless its cable. And guess what, there is only one cable provider in my area.

What do you want people to use internet for? checking email? The customers are right to scream at you. Being a WiSP you CAN provide good service. Actually besides FiOS you are the only hope.

[ratdude747]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

delete this post

[bgavin]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

I think there is a real need for a caching multi-media server.

For example, you have a standard 1.5 DSL line which is not adequate for streaming at any decent quality.

Your streaming server negotiates a connection to NetFlix, and begins to download (cache) your video in advance. If necessary, 30~60 minutes ahead of time.

This provides a big buffer that is replenished at 1.5 mbps, and slowly empties because it drains at a faster bit rate.

This will piss off the copy protection types and their attorneys, so something would have to be worked out so an entire video cannot be cached (read: copied to media).

The BigBuffer (tm) is a good solution for those in limited bandwidth areas that want to stream their videos, and don't mind stoking the pipe in advance.

[weirdlookinguy]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

That would be excellent. I would much rather start the buffer for a nice HD stream an hour or two before I watch it, than to have instant compressed 480p.

[mockingbird]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

Netflix isn't the problem per se, DSL is.

The limitation of DSL is that when you upload, it chokes the download speed. Ever wonder why Netflix has this new "Silverlight" plugin you must use? This is an old trick Limewire and other Gnutella filesharing networks used to use. Basically, your computer becomes a "supernode" and now instead of Netflix paying for expensive bandwidth, if you're watching some stupid chick flick with your wife and some guy in New Yoik is obliged to do the same thing, YOU will be corteously providing him with the film.

Couple this wit the probablility that the routers that most people buy are Chinese made garbage with substandard capacitors. When the router is forced to use uPNP (Don't quote me on this) by Netflix and it really excercises the onboard CPU, the router starts experiencing CRC TX/RX errors which is why people call you. For normal port 80 (HTTP) web browsing, these routers work fine.

It is a myth that the US has an inferior bandwidth backbone than Europe or China... This is nonsense. The US has the fattest pipes in the entire worls and they are severely UNDER capacity. It is corporate bickering (Nevermind that most of the cable and telephone line laid underground was sponsored by the US Taxpayer courtesy of Roosevelt-era socialism) that causes the end users product to be inferior.

Tell your customers to buy decent routers and to switch to cable internet.

In places where there is no cable internet, soon there will be competitive wireless internet, though it remains to be seen how versatile the full-duplex performance of this product will be.

[NxB]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

I think there is a real need for a caching multi-media server.

ISP I know tried this. Not just for multimedia but for caching in general. They were trying to be a cheapskate. Didn't work so well and was(is) a big headache.

Couple this wit the probability that the routers that most people buy are Chinese made garbage with substandard capacitors.

The old routers are about 200mhz. They are limited more by ram than anything else. I have not seen high cpu loads on any of my 43xx stuff. I've upgraded the ram on the 8mb ram units and they are now much better in terms of handling many connections, etc.

It is a myth that the US has an inferior bandwidth backbone than Europe or China...

The backbone is just fine, its the last mile that really matters, at least to end users. ISPs crying about running out of bandwith either don't want to pay to upgrade their links TO the backbone or have downstream issues at CMTS/DSLAM, etc.

Why? They were cheap.

[mockingbird]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

The old routers are about 200mhz. They are limited more by ram than anything else. I have not seen high cpu loads on any of my 43xx stuff. I've upgraded the ram on the 8mb ram units and they are now much better in terms of handling many connections, etc.

You're using custom boards? The only way to upgrade ram AFAIK is some very skillful microsoldering.

You're right, RAM is also a big factor, but what the router is running is also important. Many of the factory firmwares are buggy.

The backbone is just fine, its the last mile that really matters, at least to end users. ISPs crying about running out of bandwith either don't want to pay to upgrade their links TO the backbone or have downstream issues at CMTS/DSLAM, etc.

Bell Canada has been pretty good recently on installing RDSLAMS (Remote DSLAMS). I begged them to do it in '04, but they finally got around to it. Before ADSL2 I remember some of the modems had the ability to check SNR. In any case, if what you say is true, that's pretty pathetic of ATT. But then again, I'm not surprised America is becoming the same backwater it was before WWII.

[NxB]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

You're using custom boards? The only way to upgrade ram AFAIK is some very skillful microsoldering.

Regular routers with ram chips soldered in. Development boards are too expensive. I think 2 are 16mb (up from 8) and one is 64mb up from 16.

I only needed a microscope on the 64mb one because it had 2 chips.

Factory firmware is buggy but usually good enough if you update to the latest. Most don't do that unfortunately.

ATT can provide at least gigabit uplinks for sure if you pay through the nose. They just don't want to service small business nor consumers with anything decent.

Their support is a joke even with commercial jobs. Simple questions are met with them trying to send you to outsourced AT&T connectech which is all contractors for FE's and all india for phone support.

Canada is another story with the regulatory decision reinforcing Bell Canada's monopoly. Now everyone pays higher rates and is usage capped unless something has changed very very recently. Its like a whole country is being swindled. Sure they can install RDSLAMS now, they have like 5000% profit.

[mockingbird]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

The caps they want to implement are a bit ridiculous, but the whole thing has been a sham to begin with. They will never implement these caps, the whole thing was to give Canadians the feeling that there is something that they have a say in (Since in reality, they have a say in nothing). Of course they are too stupid to realize this faux controversy.

[Trinite]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

Never had issues with Comcast, but AT&T on the other hand just seems to be going downhill across the board.

[NxB]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

The caps are in. They are TRYING to get them overturned. I have a feeling they will fail.

[mockingbird]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

No, Tony Clement "overruled" the CRTC. But the CRTC will hold a "hearing" in a little bit. Like I said, faux controversy. Canadians are being robbed blind by the government unions and banks, and they're worrying over this nonsense.

Bell doesn't own UUNET (Or maybe Bell Nexxia does count as UUNET here, I'm not sure), and they can't impose these types of caps on their backbone, so what people don't realize is that as long as there is competing technologies, this "cap" will be a temporary slight hinderance.

Keep in mind, internet over the power lines and wireless internet are plausible. There already exist cellular towers, it would be trivial to implement wireless internet over these towers. In 2004 I tested such a connection for a customer (Where they come and mount a satellite on the building - the tower has to be within a certain distance - keep in mind this is not SATELLITE internet) and the speeds were comparable to low-mid range DSL and the latency was more than sufficient for the likes of me.

I used to use dial-up back in the day, and on a clean connection, I got on average of 90-120ms pings which was good enough for me for gaming.

[NxB]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

Dialup is not the end of the world if you're just browsing... Too bad fast internet has spoiled me.

Sticking wimax or 5ghz antennas onto the cell towers is probably the cheapest solution. Too bad the companies charge exorbitant rent.

the tower has to be within a certain distance - keep in mind this is not SATELLITE internet)

Line of sight/point to point link? We have a few of these here but its expensive and not that fast, maybe 20mbps(ish). Towerstream comes to mind.

They have dishes for many frequencies, you can get one for 802.11. I think they top out at 32dbi. 5ghz radios will do 150mbps so if those get deployed by someone it would be great.

[mockingbird]

Re: netflix, the network destoryer

Yea, I think they were line of sight. Yes, 20mbps? Not quite, like I said, something more like low-mid range DSL, let's say 4-5 MBPS IIRC which is still splenty fast. 20MBPS is slow for you!? That's 2.5 MegaByte/sec download speed!