Msi pm8m3-v

[trodas]

MSI show on it's website this image, of a MSI PM8M3-V mainbaord:

http://cz.msi.com/product/mb/PM8M3-V.html

As you can see, the Vcore output is populate with 7 Oscon polymer caps. In reality, however, you get this:

MSI PM8M3-V reality

A strip down version, from 7 caps to 3 (!)... and that is for the power hungry P4 CPU's! Yes, there are also the two top caps, but they are not polymers and even the another top two up are Vcore connected (3300uF 6.3V)...

But the main rip off is the caps type used. They are Ost 680uF 4V caps, so not a good caps by any way

In short, they show you 7 polymers, but deliver there Ost crap caps. Is not that irony?

/me outraged a little about these liars

To make this post more usefull, the caps list for MSI PM8M3-V goes as follows:
9x 680uF 4V d8 Ost RLA
2x 3300uF 6.3V d10 Ost RLX
3x 1000uF 16V d8 Panasonic FL (+1 leftover)
12x 1000uF 6.3V d8 Ost (+4 leftovers)
2x 470uF 10V d8 G-Luxon

[pfrcom]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

And they've removed the socket for the BIOS chip as well

BTW, welcome back Trodas

[ant3202]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

OST gotta change... they cannot take the stress... if you look at my past post.... all were bloated

[trodas]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

pfrcom - thanks for spotting yet another ripoff of MSI. Definitively one can see, that at first, it can be a good and well build mobo. Yet then come the marketing and pull out everything they can... shameless.
Thanks for the welcome

ant3202 - I know. Ost are bad caps for sure. And Panny FL aren't existing caps also, not to mention the G-Luxons...
Gotta find some suitable replacements. Since the Vcore is up to IIRC 1.4V only, then a 2V polymers can get there, like Nichicon LE 1000uF 2V d8

[c_hegge]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

I usually use 4v 560uF polies in there, and fill up the blank spaces.

[farfigs11]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

MSI show on it's website this image, of a MSI PM8M3-V mainbaord:

http://cz.msi.com/product/mb/PM8M3-V.html

As you can see, the Vcore output is populate with 7 Oscon polymer caps. In reality, however, you get this:

MSI PM8M3-V reality

A strip down version, from 7 caps to 3 (!)... and that is for the power hungry P4 CPU's! Yes, there are also the two top caps, but they are not polymers and even the another top two up are Vcore connected (3300uF 6.3V)...

But the main rip off is the caps type used. They are Ost 680uF 4V caps, so not a good caps by any way

In short, they show you 7 polymers, but deliver there Ost crap caps. Is not that irony?

/me outraged a little about these liars

To make this post more usefull, the caps list for MSI PM8M3-V goes as follows:
9x 680uF 4V d8 Ost RLA
2x 3300uF 6.3V d10 Ost RLX
3x 1000uF 16V d8 Panasonic FL (+1 leftover)
12x 1000uF 6.3V d8 Ost (+4 leftovers)
2x 470uF 10V d8 G-Luxon

I have two of these MB. On one I filled in all spaces around the cpu with 560uf polymers and replaced 10 of the 1000uf 6.3v, as they were all expanded, and it works good. THe other came with three 680uf polymers, believe it or not. They all look good so I haven't added any more to that one yet.

[Heihachi_73]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

This is why I don't buy MSI boards. From Chhsi in 1999 to OST in 2013, nothing has changed. You might be able to spend $20 or so to fix them, but it shouldn't be necessary just to get more than two years out of a PC.

[lti]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

I don't think MSI is still making low-end LGA775 boards that only support Pentium 4s.

Their newer boards don't look too bad.

[trodas]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

Interestingly, I discover a hell LOT of hidden bios option in it using Modbin, but that call fore recap first, lol. These caps are really inferior crap...

And I believe this is not just a MSI - every manafacturer seems to do it these days.

Suggested replacements:
9x Nichicon LE 820uF 2.5V 493-3058-ND
2x Nichicon HZ 3300uF 6.3V UHZ0J332MPM-ND
4x Nichicon HZ 1000uF 16V UHZ1C102MPM6-ND
16x Nichicon HM 1000uF 6.3V UHM0J102MPD-ND
2x Nichicon LE 470uF 6.3V 493-3066-ND

[ant3202]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

it could be due to board revision.... also and other plant...
even the cpu fan socket is different from the msi sample photos

[crash-cyberdrive]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

Because I was going to start another thread related to the same board Ill post here,
My shop board looks very diferent than the above and I think it uses less capacitors around the cpu.
Trodas suggested 9x Nichicon LE 820uF 2.5V 493-3058-ND but I was able to find from my supplier the Rubycon MFZ 4v 680uf. And I saw on the board only 6 OST's. what do you guys suggest.
I was able to start the PC but it is unstable, and this our shop pc to print customer history on repair.

[kc8adu]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

use the sanyo sepc 560@4 availible in the badcaps store.
you have to watch height on these caps as they must clear the heatsink.the sanyo fit fine.

[trodas]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

That depends on what heatsink you want to use. IMHO the Nichicon LE is best, because these are the best polymer caps (ripple!) That is why I accept that they are 9mm in height when soldered. If the standard crap Intel heatsink did not fit, I rather use for example a Zalman CNPS 9500:
http://www.ocmodshop.com/images/revi...ps_9500_03.jpg
The bottom plate is just as big, as the CPU, so... I did not see a problem there with the 9mm height. I would quess that these OST are 6 or 7mm, in witch case the space looking pretty fine for 9mm, I think. Not tested yet, true. (lazy friend cap ordering, DHS screwed this up bad also)

[crash-cyberdrive]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

Hi all,
Just to let know I did the recap with rubycon MFZ caps and they fit perfectly with oversize cooling fan heatsink on this board. I was very fortunate not to loose this board. I dont even know how this board was even working with only 2 "good" caps. When I took them out the rubber part almost fell of the capacitor on three of them.

Will post pictures tomorrow they are on my phone.

Again all of the posts here has been very helpful.

[crash-cyberdrive]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

Hi all,
Just to let know I did the recap with rubycon MFZ caps and they fit perfectly with oversize cooling fan heatsink on this board. I was very fortunate not to loose this board. I dont even know how this board was even working with only 2 "good" caps. When I took them out the rubber part almost fell of the capacitor on three of them.

Will post pictures tomorrow they are on my phone.

Again all of the posts here has been very helpful.

A bit late but here they are.

[trodas]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

crash-cyberdrive - nice. What PCB version this is? The information is at the edge near the PATA connectors, berely visible on one of your pics.

Mine MSI PM8M3-V is PCB v. 1.0 and it is obviously different:

Only there Ost caps on side, FOUR missing! That is stealing by MSI marketing!


AGP powering is rather underpowered:


Ram's run on Ost caps too, completely:


Vcore is supported with big 3300uF Ost caps (and two small Ost caps nearer the socket LGA 775):


Near NIC (Realtek RTL8100C) is G-Luxons (!) ... a terrible known bad caps. Unacceptable!


The Vcore input have space for 4 caps, just there are used and they are Panasonic FL caps, witch cannot be bought on Digikey and I did not suppose they are even original Panasonic caps... What is worser is, that they are d8 only, while 16V caps are hard to source even with d10, not to mention d8...

[trodas]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

So this obviously cannot stays like that, because the mobo is starting to shown first unstability issues and crash on load, so, there had to be recap. I also wanted badly to give the mobo back the nice polymers, the MSI marketing striped it off... In short, I wanted to trumph out the advert Because even better that Sanyo Oscon polymers exist - and that are Nichicon LE polymers. So I made my list of ideas, how the recap shuld look like:

9x Nichicon LE 820uF 2.5V d8 493-3058-ND
2x Nichicon HZ 3300uF 6.3V d10 UHZ0J332MPM-ND
4x Nichicon HZ 1000uF 16V d8 UHZ1C102MPM6-ND
16x Nichicon HM 1000uF 6.3V d8 UHM0J102MPD-ND
2x Nichicon LE 470uF 6.3V d8 493-3066-ND
1x Taiyo Yuden 47uF 6.3V 587-3406-1-ND

However certain things go wrong. The first was, that I managed thru friend to order only the original number of the 1000uF 6.3V caps, 12 of them. I had to improvise and replace the remaining 4 unused before with the Samxon GC caps, witch is similar is quality, tested good caps.
At lest I see what caps are new there, lol.
However worser was, that the only one d8 caps for 16V was really hi-end elytes Nichicon HZ, but they are out of the stock for months. So, what to do? I had no chance but to press on and thy some improvisation there...
And at last I completely forget the little SMD cap behind the AGP slot, witch I indented to replace with ceramic caps, when there is available even 47uF ceramic SMD caps with the little 12210 size!

So the main idea was to get the Vcore voltage filtering on hi-quality level, witch I managed easily by using the best polymers ever produced (nothing beat their ripple current rattings):



But now what to do with the input caps, that are not stock? In the end I managed to squeeze easily in their places (luckily, there is nothing upclose near them) replacement caps, witch I took from my stash - a Panasonic FM 1000uF 16V d10:



Of course I added even the unused one, right after the input coil:



Ram's get a quality Nichicon caps too now, so they cannot complain on discrimination changes:



What I also did miss is the sad look of six empty places, where a good quality ceramic caps should be, so the Vcore will be stable even in extreme situations:



As I mentioned, on the previously unused places I slap the Samxon GC caps:



And the NIC controller must be jumping out of joy, because it got the quality Nichicon LE polymers voltage filtering instead of the G-Luxon crap caps - now this is a jump in quality!



Over on the CPU socket, there come together two important caps. A Nichicon HZ - the best electrolyte caps ever when come to the ripple current (Samxon GA are par to par with it, but nothing other come even close, not even Rubycon MCZ, yet the Man Yue stoped manufacturing them ) and then the Nichicon LE - best polymer ever made:



And at last - overal look on the Vcore regulation - now it look far much better that before!



And the result? Well, the CPU and rams and HDD is working perfectly. The Vcore regulators, with the serious heatsinks, are - even that no fan is blowing at them, yet I removed the serial and parallel ports to get them better ventilated - after a day of work, night of stress test and half day of gaming heardly even warm...!
That well shown the fact, that quality caps means lesser temperatures of the components. That was just great. And with stock box fan and no case fan...!

Now just the AGP cap and some of these ceramics...

[trodas]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

Also I want to point out, how much can these review board differ from what one can actually buy (compare first two images).
If you look closely, you see that on the "advert" board is 10 pcs of ceramics inside of the LGA 775 socket. And on the sale version, there are just 4 pcs of the ceramics.

Seems that these damn people remove everything that they can. Maybe that is why they disabled a LOT of options in the bios, so user cannot seem them, much less tweak them. Maybe overclocking won't work stable, because of all these removed caps...?

Besides, there is the last MSI PM8M3-V bios v1.5 and previous v1.4 - original ones and unlocked versions where you see all the options with much more settings:
http://www.mediafire.com/?9npsvnsc8pmzhx1
http://dfiles.eu/files/z5ar3lnbl
http://www.uloz.to/xKAgfX51/MSI+PM8M3-V+bioses.zip

Well, in the version 1.5 I did not unlocked all the settings for the IGP, because I dubt anyone can use it anyway, so...

...and if when they use it, then this is probably not necessary? (from v1.4 unlocked bios) There are pretty much tons of settings what can be unlocked just using Modbin At first the mobo looked in bios very very cheap, almost no settings, but when I get to the unlocking, then I realized that there are plenty of settings and even enought of sensors...


But I did not believe that the mobo can take a 333MHz of ram ram speed - 666MHz of DDR speed! No way in hell:


And also I did not believe that the mobo can utilize a DDR2 rams, even the bios claim it:

[trodas]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

Today is the day! UPS delivered a 10pcs of Vishay SUD50N02-09P-E3 mosfets samples from German Vishay HQ. Hoooray!

Therefore I immediatelly went to work. First at all, there is a picture that show the "polymerization" of caps near the AGP on the MSI PM8M3-V mobo:



The remaining two non-polymer caps (Nichicon HM & Samxon GC) run at 5V, so there is no good substitute for them, but for the rest, the capacity was bumped (2x 1200 & 2x 2200uF) as well as the specs.

The yellow KEMET tantal-polymer 220uF 2.5V cap is also well visible, as replacement for the 10uF 16V SMD suxxka cap

However that did not helped, so it is a time to replace the NIKOS P3055LDG mosfets. I picked (for the start), the two, that are most suspicious: the two most close to the AGP slot - the left one delivering the 1.50V and the right one 2.50V to the AGP.
(as you remember, lowering the 1.50V voltage from default 1.55V helped considerably with stability, so it is not like I picking up on random mosfets)

Sadly, the place is pretty crowded, so I had to pull the caps off first:



And as you can see, there are new Vishay SUD50N02-09P-E3 mosfets soldered in! I did not skip on the tin, as you can see, trying to lower every possible mOhms out...

And then I soldered back and... tried the mobo. Worked right away, hooray! (with Riva TNT) Then I tried with my R9100 and it also worked well, so I pulled the machine together and now I typing on it, as you can see

But first news is bad news. There is no instant "back to AGP mode" in Win. Still it show PCI mode, so I probably have to reinstall the graphic card to get again AGP mode back, as I always had it, before the crash during gaming...
So no instant fix.

But since it crashed by playing in PCI mode too, then I first try playing, so I can determine the stability. If anyone can cross a finger or two (or even say prayer, tough I cannot believe in anything these days), it might help

Mosfets choices:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=32872

MSI PM8M3-V mobo crashing during gaming only:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...t=31153&page=3

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: Msi pm8m3-v

I don't think MSI is still making low-end LGA775 boards that only support Pentium 4s.

Their newer boards don't look too bad.

Careful! Some of their AM3+ boards are a joke! Where they can fail at more than a 25-to-50 percent load!