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    #1

    Need Advice On Which Caps To Buy For Dell Dimension 8300 Motherboard

    The Symptom:

    I own a Dell Dimension 8300 motherboard that will post and get to the black (XP pro 32bit) “We're Sorry Windows did not load” Screen.

    When restarting any option i.e. “Normal” “Safe Mode” etc. Computer re-boots to same screen. I checked RAM with memtest –OK Checked O/S Drive with Victoria -OK

    Upon Inspection:

    I did a physical examination and see that the 6 caps by the CPU are all bulging in various degrees. (See Pics Below).

    I found a YouTube vid with a guy who replaced these 6 caps and the computer works fine. https://youtu.be/U7OGuznpCaA but video it is short on some details.

    So from there I scoured the articles/forums on https://www.badcaps.net/forum/ (What a forum!)

    The Capacitor Question:

    I am of the impression the brand/type caps is imperative. I am of the belief that I need:

    Rubycon
    6.3v 820uf 8mm x22-25mm
    Low ESR for VRM

    I think I'm looking for MCZ (?)

    So based on this info, and my pics, can anyone illuminate me on my path?
    Are there other brand/type options?
    Are there more hardware specs I should include?
    Much, much thanks.

    My background if interested:

    Total newbie. I have been using a soldering iron on my bench for 30 years fixing "Mechanical" problems, which can be easily eyeballed or found via continuity checks. Or I'll follow a YouTube Video. I've successfully replaced every Cap I ever did... All 3!
    Attached Files
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    #2
    Re: Need Advice On Which Caps To Buy For Dell Dimension 8300 Motherboard

    These capacitors are for the processors core voltage.
    Since it is a Pentium 4 that will be well below 2v so you can use caps rated for just 2.5v.
    That gives a very sensible option to the Sanyo SEPC 820uF 2.5v solid polymer caps.
    You can of course use anything of similar rating, but that is the route I would go

    Basically anything on this page is fine, my favorite there would be: SEPC820M
    https://www.mouser.se/c/passive-comp...dial&instock=y

    Extra points for shopping from badcaps of course!
    https://www.badcaps.net/store/produc...products_id=76
    "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

    Comment

      #3
      Re: Need Advice On Which Caps To Buy For Dell Dimension 8300 Motherboard

      Thanks for the reply and info. I'm fine ordering from Badcaps.

      I am skittish about polymer caps due to:
      • My desire to replace as close as possible to the originals
      • I have read many negative reports regarding polymer caps
      • My desire to use brands cited by Topcat on this forum as "Good" :

      1) Rubycon (My personal favorite)
      2) Sanyo/Nippon
      3) Nichicon
      4) Mallory
      5) Panasonic

      I'm just not savy enough to go outside my limited comfort zone.

      But I do appreciate the advice. Thanks.

      Comment

        #4
        Re: Need Advice On Which Caps To Buy For Dell Dimension 8300 Motherboard

        You can't buy electrolytic capacitors today that have as good specs as those old original capacitors had, nobody manufactures such any more...
        What you have there is Nichicon HN capacitors with an ESR rating of 0.021Ω
        On the mouser page I linked in my previous post the ESR ranges from 0.05Ω to 0.016Ω

        The Sanyo SEPC is made by Panasonic, they bought Sanyo over a decade ago, the design itself is probably 20 years old now and has a very proven track record.
        If you look for electrolytic caps the lowest you can find there in the same rating and size is 0.028Ω which might not be good enough for stability (and the next step up is 0.041Ω)
        https://www.mouser.se/c/passive-comp...ock=y&sort=esr
        Last edited by Per Hansson; 05-26-2022, 03:28 AM.
        "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

        Comment

          #5
          Re: Need Advice On Which Caps To Buy For Dell Dimension 8300 Motherboard

          Thanks for sticking with me. You are a lighthouse on a dark night. Your explanation has already taken me away from my preconceptions and given me some education.

          Okay. So my following questions are going to really show my ignorance, please, please bear with me because I may be asking things you have already answered or you have taken for granted I already knew the info.

          Originally posted by Per Hansson View Post
          Basically anything on this page is fine, my favorite there would be: SEPC820M
          Is this the Capacitor you are suggesting?:
          https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...%2F5OURQ%3D%3D

          I did a compare of :
          2SEPC820MY <> 2SEPC820MY+TSS <> 2R5SEPC820M

          2SEPC820MY+TSS -ESR: 5 mOhms -Length: 9mm -Ripple Current: 7.2A -price (x14) $0.96
          2R5SEPC820M -ESR: 7 mOhms -Length: 13mm -Ripple Current: 6.1A -price (x14) $2.05

          Presumably lower ESR is OK. The variable I see of concern is Ripple Current.
          What factor does Ripple current play in my application?

          The price difference is quite large (I have a second Dell P4 board with same issue that I'd like to repair as well = 12 caps + 2 if I mess up = 14).

          Unfortunately, budget is a factor; the Badcaps store Fujitsu 820uF 2.5v 8mm Polymer Capacitor is a more desirable price. However, Fujitsu is in the Sticky: List of Bad Cap Manufacturers list https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=388

          But Badcaps store has a stellar reputation. Is there a difference among these Fujitsu Caps?

          That said, $0.96 Panasonic vs. $0.49 Fujitsu is not a big deal but $2.05 Panasonic is a bit hurting. What do you see?

          A million thanks.

          Comment

            #6
            Re: Need Advice On Which Caps To Buy For Dell Dimension 8300 Motherboard

            Your original capacitors have a rated ripple current of 1300mA according to the datasheet I linked in my previous post.
            Higher rating is better but solid polymer caps are so much better that you can basically pick anything you like
            I have used Kemet before and they have been reliable, they also have good prices...
            As for those capacitors lists here on Badcaps they really only are for regular electrolytic capacitors
            I think only the original (20 years old?) yellow "bumblebee" fpcap could occasionally fail.
            The irony is that is what is installed on your board still being fine after all these years

            Actually seeing a failed solid polymer capacitor from any brand is not something you do...
            So you can basically pick what you want, just remember the originals are 8mm wide so that limits a bit what is available.
            I would go with the Fujitsu fpcap being sold here on Badcaps...
            As for what I use it is sometimes UCC PSG polymers, but they are expensive too.
            But there is some more details on the fpcap in this thread so might be an interesting read
            https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...ight=bumblebee
            Last edited by Per Hansson; 05-27-2022, 12:24 AM.
            "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

            Comment

              #7
              Re: Need Advice On Which Caps To Buy For Dell Dimension 8300 Motherboard

              Originally posted by Per Hansson View Post
              I think only the original (20 years old?) yellow "bumblebee" fpcap could occasionally fail.
              The irony is that is what is installed on your board still being fine after all these years
              1- I am presuming that the "bumblebee" caps are the 4 yellow caps (2 on each side of the 6 processor core voltage caps)?

              If I am to replace those, what does Badcaps store offer?

              2-Thank you for your insights and knowledge.

              I believe that purchasing from Badcaps store is the way to go. That said, I've decided to do a visual inspection of all my motherboards (Old XP and 98/ME Machines) in the coming week. I already know of one suspect cap in an otherwise fully working Optiplex 745 computer. Since the Badcaps store is so convenient and well priced, I can afford to expand my order to also have some backups. But I may first need to post any bad cap in question. I also feel good that I can help support this amazing forum/store. When I purchase I will mention your invaluable advice to the store!

              I will certainly update the progress of my P4 re-cap(s) and related experience. Thank you Per Hansson.

              Comment

                #8
                Re: Need Advice On Which Caps To Buy For Dell Dimension 8300 Motherboard

                Originally posted by TMTGTR View Post
                1- I am presuming that the "bumblebee" caps are the 4 yellow caps (2 on each side of the 6 processor core voltage caps)?

                If I am to replace those, what does Badcaps store offer?
                I would not replace them, I was just commenting that it was a bit funny that they are still fine if they are considered "bad caps"
                I would use what I mentioned in a previous post for the failed caps:
                https://www.badcaps.net/store/produc...products_id=76
                "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: Need Advice On Which Caps To Buy For Dell Dimension 8300 Motherboard

                  Made the order today. Did mention your help and gave link to this thread to the store.

                  Will update on this Newbie Odyssey.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: Need Advice On Which Caps To Buy For Dell Dimension 8300 Motherboard

                    A big thanks to all and to Per Hansson!

                    The re-cap job was a success. There was a learning curve and I did have to micro drill out two stuck leads. (I have done a lot of micro drilling in my time thankfully, and yes I know this is a method that is not endorsed by the people on this forum).

                    One mistake is that I did not use my chisel tip. I realize that could have made a difference by supplying more heating surface to the area. I did see that in the Badcaps.net articles, but I did not pay attention

                    With what I've learned I am way more confident for future jobs.
                    *****
                    Unfortunately, the caps do not seem to have been the problem.

                    The original symptoms that I originally posted are still there.

                    Today I shall try to troubleshoot further.
                    I have downloaded and will attempt to use diagnostic tools from Floppy/DOS.

                    If anyone has a suggestion, I am all ears.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: Need Advice On Which Caps To Buy For Dell Dimension 8300 Motherboard

                      Sometimes the bad caps causes the system to become too unstable, when it then saves some data to disk that can get corrupted and cause the issue you have.
                      To test that make a clean installation of Windows, can do it on another spare hard drive if you have one to not touch the data on your current one.
                      You can also use a Linux "Live DVD" to boot from, that also tests the system quite well...
                      "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Re: Need Advice On Which Caps To Buy For Dell Dimension 8300 Motherboard

                        Well I'll start at the end.
                        The computer is working (Could not have done it without your help!)

                        I was hasty in my post:
                        Originally posted by TMTGTR View Post
                        The original symptoms that I originally posted are still there.
                        Not the complete story:
                        As stated before, after the re-cap, the no-boot symptom remained (see first post). However, now instead of looping back to the "We apologize..." screen, it goes BSOD and shuts down.
                        I first decided to collect a bunch of DOS/Floppy diagnostics tools, most notably TuffTEST-Lite v3, AIDA-16 and HWINFO v4.97. Everything these utilities reported and tested, passed. I started leaning to the "belief" that the Mobo/RAM/CPU/Video is healthy.

                        Time to get any BSOD info. No access to a phone to video, so I rebooted 3 times to get the BSOD message:

                        "UNMOUNTABLE_BOOT_VOLUME"
                        First time I ever appreciated a BSOD!

                        Doing a search of UNMOUNTABLE_BOOT_VOLUME a page came up:
                        https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...1-21b29bd71b90

                        It recommended CD->Repair->Recovery console-> chkdsk /r
                        It worked.

                        It looks like what you say about unstable caps corrupting reads/writes to the file system is spot on. Previously, Windows Repair Console would not work with the bad cap voltage (I had tried but the CD would not even load). The new caps were essential to allow Windows to repair itself.

                        This was on the second O/S drive since I originally thought the original drive was bad,

                        So the next day I put in my original hard drive, reformatted the active C:\ partition and reinstalled Windows without a hitch. Reinstalled drivers and programs; today more of that and tweaking. So far no issue. I'll really know when it's back in the studio doing intensive digital audio calculations. If all goes well and I can master a song, I'll report this issue as closed. Thanks!

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: Need Advice On Which Caps To Buy For Dell Dimension 8300 Motherboard

                          Well I thew everything I have at the new MOBO/Caps and the computer ran smooth.

                          Intense HD audio processing/rendering. All without a hitch. Interestingly my most demanding plugin used to require 7 minutes to render 3 minutes of music. Now it takes a little under 3 minutes to render. All the other applications seem to be moving faster as well.
                          Overall computer navigation is smoother. Boot up MUCH faster.

                          My computer was sick for a long time before it gave out.

                          Consider this issue closed.

                          Per Hansson, I only hope I can add something to the forum in the future. The whole experience has opened me up to new horizons in electronics. Thank you!
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: Need Advice On Which Caps To Buy For Dell Dimension 8300 Motherboard

                            You're welcome and thanks for posting back with the results!
                            "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

                            Comment

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