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    Fan-Hax Inc

    For some reason, some people on a local electronics forum got the idea that i do reballs. I only reflow, i don't have the equipment to change the solder balls. I used to send them to a guy i know, but since i got burned with my own dv9000, i no longer recommend him.

    Now, i got a message about a tx1000 with nvidia 6150. Goes black when heats up, and starts up again only if it's allowed to cool. Guy bought it from an auction or something, as the touchscreen needs to be replaced, and he told me he opened it up to find a coin (!!!) between the 6150 and heatsink. Now that's ugly... especially since our pennies are made from an alloy with a crap thermal transfer coefficient.

    I told him i can only inject flux under the chip, reflow it, and make an aluminum shim for it, and that it's likely to need a fan mod as well to make it react to the GPU/NB temperature as well, not just the CPU. Now, i've had this idea for a while but never gotten around to trying it out.

    As you know i've modded my dv9000 with an extra fan over the GPU, but it's been bugging me for a while that while the tiny 30mm fan i used there is whining away, the main fan stays lazy because it's only dependent on CPU temp. Since the fans in these things are 4-pin, accepting a PWM control signal, it's fairly trivial to design a circuit to take input from a couple thermistors placed on the heatsink, one near the GPU, one near the CPU, and make it into a PWM signal, hijacking the control line of the fan.

    The beauty of it is that the fan is still powered from the same place, also the sense line remains there, so the computer won't know the difference, and the result is OS-independent and does not require ugly patches like fooling the temperatures in the DSDT and such, as seen elsewhere.

    I will not make an attempt to linearize the thermistors as their resistance vs temperature curve is advantageous here - i need the fan to stay as quiet as possible below 50C, but do its best so 60C temperature is not exceeded. I've calculated the thermistors to provide maximum input voltage to the controller at 55C for the GPU, and 65C for the CPU. I will be using a MC34063 SMD for my PWM control, and by the looks of it, it won't need much extra parts. Two resistors for each input (just because i can't find exact values), another resistor for the output, two diodes for summing, a few ceramic caps and of course, the thermistors. That's all.

    Told him to come on Monday, so that'll be plenty of time to tune the design.
    Last edited by Th3_uN1Qu3; 06-26-2012, 04:49 PM.
    Originally posted by PeteS in CA
    Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
    A working TV? How boring!

    #2
    Re: Fan-Hax Inc

    ugh I hate you and your fucking genius
    Cap Datasheet Depot: http://www.paullinebarger.net/DS/
    ^If you have datasheets not listed PM me

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Fan-Hax Inc

      If you got time, maybe post a few pics when you're done. I'm sure a lot of people will find this mod useful. My Dell C600 laptop could probably use one too. That thing runs hot until its whole bottom burns. Of course it's a Pentium 3 laptop with leaded solder and has been running that way for some 10 years now. Probably wouldn't mind to run another 10 the way it is. But still, I'd like to keep it a bit cooler.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Fan-Hax Inc

        @ momaka: The circuit i am designing is for 4-wire fans. Older laptops are likely to have 3-wire fans, for which you can use a very simple circuit with one transistor, one resistor and one NTC thermistor, ala the fan controller you see in cheap power supplies.

        The guy with the tx1000 came Monday but i didn't have time to do the board by then, so i just reflowed it and cut the PWM wire on the fan (which made it run at 100% because there's an internal pullup resistor). He's coming back on Friday to get the controller board fitted. And there will likely be some extra holes drilled in the case, as the thermal design of that tablet is just atrocious. Even with the fan blaring at full throttle, load temperatures were in the high 60s. That's better than having the fan only reach full speed at 85C, but if that thing is to last any reasonable amount of time, something needs to be done about it.

        Anyway, here's a sample of Fan-Hax rev. 1. I realized the MC34063 wouldn't work, as it is variable-frequency, and the fan in this tablet adhered to the intel standard of 25kHz (even tho it's an AMD based machine). I believe most of them use this fixed frequency standard. So i used another circuit which i've built before for the same application, only this time i made it smaller. It's the 2nd circuit on this page: http://www.4qdtec.com/pwmmod.html only with slightly different values.

        It uses all jellybean parts, and the PCB is designed to be easily hand soldered. In fact, i could have made it smaller and still be easy to build, but i thought it's enough. You can make 4 of them on a 100mm wide PCB. It's got one SOIC-8 and all passives are in 0805. Well, in my case one resistor is 0603 because they didn't have 0805 in stock but that's a different matter. There's one ugly jumper wire but i couldn't be bothered to shuffle the component placements again. For now, one thermistor input only, as that's all the tx1000's gonna need. PCB for 2 inputs soon to follow.

        I have tested this board i just built and it read as follows:
        PWM frequency: 22.8kHz. Intel says 21-28 is okay, so this oughta do.
        Duty cycle: 40% to 100%, from 30 to 55C. I would have liked a lower limit of say 10%, but since the laptops this is designed to fit in have poor cooling anyway, it's likely that the fan would never go this low even if it did have the range. Either way, at 25C it's likely around 30% - but it's too hot in here to be able to test that.
        Attached Files
        Last edited by Th3_uN1Qu3; 07-04-2012, 04:08 PM.
        Originally posted by PeteS in CA
        Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
        A working TV? How boring!

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Fan-Hax Inc

          I wasn't entirely happy with 40% minimum, so i found a way to get a wider duty cycle variation for the same temperature range. Since what it did is it "bent" the ramp waveform, it sorta compensated for the nonlinear characteristic of the thermistor as well, so i now have a pretty nice PWM fan controller, even if i say so myself.

          Minimum should be around 20% at 25C, lowest i could measure right now is at 29C, where the duty cycle sits just a smidge over 25%. It reaches 50% at 41C, and it's at full blast at 53C. Frequency sits now at 24.96kHz, it doesn't get much closer than this. We'll see how it fares tomorrow.
          Attached Files
          Originally posted by PeteS in CA
          Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
          A working TV? How boring!

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Fan-Hax Inc

            The first Fan-Hax board was installed today.

            Not in the tx1000 as that guy has yet to show up again, but in an Acer. I forgot the model name, will update... I was too busy soldering and taping stuff to remember that. All i remember right now is it had an i7 with turbo boost and a GT500 series GPU. The thing would reach 105C when gaming and shut down, and the fan never even got close to 100%... Owner told me the only time he really heard the fan was when flashing the BIOS. To keep it from reaching shutdown temperature he had to disable turbo boost on the CPU and underclock the GPU. Good job Acer.

            I hadn't bothered updating the boards yet, so i just hooked both thermistors up in parallel, and adjusted the voltage divider resistor to suit. I know that this basically means that when only one device is hot the fan will run based on the average of the two temperatures and not the maximum, but i was sure that in a laptop with a single fan the temps will average themselves out, and they do. Upon inspecting the thing i noticed that the fan was 3-wire, so it was voltage controlled not PWM. I had to do some extra hax to the board, namely adding a MOSFET and lowering the PWM frequency from 25kHz to somewhere around 10Hz, didn't measure it exactly. Anyway, the PWM clicking is barely audible and that only if you put your ear close to the exhaust, and once the fan ramps up you can't hear it at all.

            Result: Success. With everything maxed out, the CPU runs in the high 80s, and the GPU just a smidge over 90. That's still high, but at least it doesn't turn off anymore and can be used to its full potential. In games the temperatures are going to be lower. So, the fan can do it, they just didn't bother to configure it properly...

            Another nice touch, that i realized only after we put the thing back together: I wired the power to the controller to the USB 5v supply, which means that even after the laptop is turned off, the fan will continue to run until the heatsink has cooled. It does not do this on battery, as the USB power is cut to avoid a forgotten peripheral from draining the battery.

            Here some pics. Before you ask: Yes i did move the wires away to clear that screw hole before i put the board back in.
            Attached Files
            Last edited by Th3_uN1Qu3; 09-08-2012, 07:29 PM.
            Originally posted by PeteS in CA
            Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
            A working TV? How boring!

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Fan-Hax Inc

              Nice job!
              I am amazed

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Fan-Hax Inc

                Niiiiice. The original overheating problem sounds typical of Acer.

                EDIT: I might have to do a similar thing to a Toshiba Satellite A200 I just scored.
                Last edited by c_hegge; 09-09-2012, 05:29 AM.
                I love putting bad caps and flat batteries in fire and watching them explode!!

                No wonder it doesn't work! You installed the jumper wires backwards

                Main PC: Core i7 3770K 3.5GHz, Gigabyte GA-Z77M-D3H-MVP, 8GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600, 240GB Intel 335 Series SSD, 750GB WD HDD, Sony Optiarc DVD RW, Palit nVidia GTX660 Ti, CoolerMaster N200 Case, Delta DPS-600MB 600W PSU, Hauppauge TV Tuner, Windows 7 Home Premium

                Office PC: HP ProLiant ML150 G3, 2x Xeon E5335 2GHz, 4GB DDR2 RAM, 120GB Intel 530 SSD, 2x 250GB HDD, 2x 450GB 15K SAS HDD in RAID 1, 1x 2TB HDD, nVidia 8400GS, Delta DPS-650BB 650W PSU, Windows 7 Pro

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Fan-Hax Inc

                  Are you sure it will not start smelling like burnt cables once that heatpipe goes hot?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Fan-Hax Inc

                    Yes, i am sure. I got asked about that before i wrapped the whole thing up. All wires are covered with kapton tape, they don't touch the heatpipe. If you were asking about the wires on the sensor on top of the CPU, i added a bit more tape after i took the pictures.
                    Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                    Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                    A working TV? How boring!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Fan-Hax Inc

                      Originally posted by c_hegge View Post
                      The original overheating problem sounds typical of Acer.
                      I don't think it is Acer's fault. That looks like a Compal board. Acer probably used a standard Compal barebones system without making any changes to its design. HP and Toshiba do the same thing.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Fan-Hax Inc

                        It said HannStar on it... i believe Quanta designed the board it as that's their usual factory.
                        Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                        Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                        A working TV? How boring!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Fan-Hax Inc

                          Originally posted by Th3_uN1Qu3 View Post
                          It said HannStar on it... i believe Quanta designed the board it as that's their usual factory.
                          It could be a Quanta board. I can't tell who made a certain laptop.

                          I wonder who makes all of those laptops that look identical aside from the color of the plastic. My Toshiba is one of those "clone" laptops. They might be made by Quanta and Compal might make the good laptops.

                          My old HP laptop could have used a fan controller like that, but it wasn't worth it for such a slow computer. I tried putting a fan controller in my desktop computer, but the fan runs at the same speed constantly.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Fan-Hax Inc

                            I couldn't be bothered fan-haxing my A200, so I just wired the fan straight to 5V on the SATA connector. It's not actually all that loud even at maximum speed. I'm posting from it now.
                            I love putting bad caps and flat batteries in fire and watching them explode!!

                            No wonder it doesn't work! You installed the jumper wires backwards

                            Main PC: Core i7 3770K 3.5GHz, Gigabyte GA-Z77M-D3H-MVP, 8GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600, 240GB Intel 335 Series SSD, 750GB WD HDD, Sony Optiarc DVD RW, Palit nVidia GTX660 Ti, CoolerMaster N200 Case, Delta DPS-600MB 600W PSU, Hauppauge TV Tuner, Windows 7 Home Premium

                            Office PC: HP ProLiant ML150 G3, 2x Xeon E5335 2GHz, 4GB DDR2 RAM, 120GB Intel 530 SSD, 2x 250GB HDD, 2x 450GB 15K SAS HDD in RAID 1, 1x 2TB HDD, nVidia 8400GS, Delta DPS-650BB 650W PSU, Windows 7 Pro

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Fan-Hax Inc

                              Originally posted by Th3_uN1Qu3 View Post
                              @ momaka: The circuit i am designing is for 4-wire fans. Older laptops are likely to have 3-wire fans, for which you can use a very simple circuit with one transistor, one resistor and one NTC thermistor, ala the fan controller you see in cheap power supplies.


                              Anyway, here's a sample of Fan-Hax rev. 1. I realized the MC34063 wouldn't work, as it is variable-frequency, and the fan in this tablet adhered to the intel standard of 25kHz (even tho it's an AMD based machine). I believe most of them use this fixed frequency standard. So i used another circuit which i've built before for the same application, only this time i made it smaller. It's the 2nd circuit on this page: http://www.4qdtec.com/pwmmod.html only with slightly different values.

                              It uses all jellybean parts, and the PCB is designed to be easily hand soldered. In fact, i could have made it smaller and still be easy to build, but i thought it's enough. You can make 4 of them on a 100mm wide PCB. It's got one SOIC-8 and all passives are in 0805. Well, in my case one resistor is 0603 because they didn't have 0805 in stock but that's a different matter. There's one ugly jumper wire but i couldn't be bothered to shuffle the component placements again. For now, one thermistor input only, as that's all the tx1000's gonna need. PCB for 2 inputs soon to follow.
                              Do you have a updated board made
                              Also do you have the board file that you used could you post them and where you had the board made
                              9 PC LCD Monitor
                              6 LCD Flat Screen TV
                              30 Desk Top Switching Power Supply
                              10 Battery Charger Switching Power Supply for Power Tool
                              6 18v Lithium Battery Power Boards for Tool Battery Packs
                              1 XBox 360 Switching Power Supply and M Board
                              25 Servo Drives 220/460 3 Phase
                              6 De-soldering Station Switching Power Supply 1 Power Supply
                              1 Dell Mother Board
                              15 Computer Power Supply
                              1 HP Printer Supply & Control Board * lighting finished it *

                              These two repairs where found with a ESR meter...> Temp at 50*F then at 90*F the ESR reading more than 10%
                              1 Over Head Crane Current Sensing Board ( VFD Failure Five Years Later )
                              2 Hem Saw Computer Stack Board
                              All of these had CAPs POOF
                              All of the mosfet that are taken out by bad caps

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: Fan-Hax Inc

                                Unfortunately all the files are currently offline because my HP DV9000 died for good, but will get them off the drive sometime these days. I made the boards myself.
                                Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                                Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                                A working TV? How boring!

                                Comment

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