ATX PSU, 13.8v

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Pinhead
    Member
    • Nov 2013
    • 28
    • United States

    #1

    ATX PSU, 13.8v

    Since I got my Amateur Radio Operator license a few months ago I've been in the process of putting together my station. One of the aspects of this project is to build a reliable power source to run my various radios and amplifiers. I've successfully converted a couple of old(ish) ATX PSUs to output 13.8v to 14v, with some working better than others. Each are rated at ~20 amps on the 12v rail.

    I plan on documenting the various components with pictures in this thread so we can see what components should be upgraded in order to supply more current/power. I have a fried PSU that can source 60a on the 12v rail so I may pull components from it to increase the power capacity of this supply.

    I converted these by removing the 5v regulation and using a voltage divider on the 12v rail to regulate the PSU (the PWM controller sees 5v through the voltage divider). If I increase the voltage above 14v the PSU won't power on. Voltage is what I consider fairly stable -- 14v at idle and the lowest I've seen is 13.8v under a roughly 200w peak load (~15a).

    I also added a gang of supercapacitors on the output. Total capacitance from this should be roughly 1F. Unfortunately I'm afraid the total ESR of the 7 capacitors in series is too high to do much good (each capacitor is rated at 80 mohms esr).

    The problem I've come across is the transient nature of the power consumption of the SSB transmission mode is randomly powering down my PSU.

    I don't believe the PSU is going into overpower or overcurrent protection; it will shut down at random whether I'm using the amplifier (15a max) or running barefoot (less than 1/4 the power of the amplifier). I can sometimes talk for upwards of 20 minutes without a shutdown and other times I can't finish a sentence. Once the PSU starts to power down it will do so regardless of the power settings.

    I don't believe temperature is a factor; the room temp has been anywhere from 40°F to 85°F and if anything the PSU will shut down more often when it's cold but I have no way to quantify that. I have never felt any heat coming out of the back of the supply (high speed fan runs directly off the 14v rail).

    It seems to be able to run more stably in AM mode which has a more constant power draw with more average power used but less peak power. However, when talking on AM in medium or high power mode the PSU makes a slight squeal corresponding with my voice. This noise doesn't occur in SSB mode.

    I have replaced a few bulged output capacitors with higher value components - both in voltage and in capacitance - though they came out of another PSU so admittedly I don't know their ESR (just that they aren't bulged and my Fluke meter measured the correct capacitance).

    Strangely even with a modest ~250 watt load I’ve noticed that the lights slightly dim in my shack when I’m talking in SSB mode (following my voice). Might larger input capacitors alleviate this problem? It should be noted that my 2kw electric heater and ¼HP grinder don’t cause the lights to dim appreciably. Could this possibly be what is causing the PSU to shut down?
    Last edited by Pinhead; 11-06-2013, 01:14 PM.
  • domas
    News Hater
    • May 2013
    • 323
    • Denmark

    #2
    Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

    Here, in this section we love pictures or at least model names, labels, etc. This is so somebody that is more competent than me will evaluate your P/S and explain that, for example, it is not capable of 200w even though it is rated for 1000w. I would also suggest that you explain the voltage mod is it the same or similar to this one? http://boginjr.com/electronics/lv/atx-mod/

    Comment

    • Pinhead
      Member
      • Nov 2013
      • 28
      • United States

      #3
      Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

      Yes, I did precisely what is shown in that link. Too bad; I thought I had produced an original DIY idea. :P

      Unfortunately I can't edit my original post so I'll add some more information here; the stated power capability in my original post was incorrect.

      The PSU is an Austin Power Supply, Model DR-B300ATX.

      3.3v 28a
      5v 30a
      12v 15a

      It seems this power supply is running on the ragged edge of inadequacy.

      So I guess the next question is, which components should I look at first with regards to increasing the power capability? Would it be possible to remove the more stout 5v components and use them to replace the 12v components?

      I snapped a few pics last night but unfortunately I forgot to bring my Micro-USB cable to work so I'll have to upload the pics of the board tomorrow.

      Comment

      • Pentium4
        CapXon Be Gone
        • Sep 2011
        • 3741
        • USA

        #4
        Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

        Could just be the OVP shutting it down. Well that explains everything! It's a Deer Depending on what the PSU uses, it may be a bad idea to swap the 5V and 12V rectifiers. Most likely the 5V uses a TO-247 30A schottky and the 12V uses a 12 or 16A ultra fast recovery diode. If so, then swapping them would probably throw all the voltages out of whack. If there's a schottky on the 3.3V, swap that one with the 12V. It probably has 13007 switchers, which are good for usually 250W but depending on the size of the main transformer it may not even be worth it to replace the switchers.

        It wouldn't hurt to up the value of the input caps. They're probably 330uF, and the switchers + transformer would thank you if you got them to at least 470uF.

        Comment

        • Behemot
          Badcaps Legend
          • Dec 2009
          • 4845
          • CZ

          #5
          Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

          I think somebody here came with good idea how to increase voltage of these PSUs quite easily. Instead of labouring with feedback which quite often only starts to oscilate, the driving chip - usually KA7500B, 2003 and similar - you increase their input voltage as they compare the feedbacked voltages with their input! So higher driver input = also higher PSU output and it still works quite OK.
          Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

          Exclusive caps, meters and more!
          Hardware Insights - power supply reviews and more!

          Comment

          • Pinhead
            Member
            • Nov 2013
            • 28
            • United States

            #6
            Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

            Originally posted by Behemot
            I think somebody here came with good idea how to increase voltage of these PSUs quite easily. Instead of labouring with feedback which quite often only starts to oscilate, the driving chip - usually KA7500B, 2003 and similar - you increase their input voltage as they compare the feedbacked voltages with their input! So higher driver input = also higher PSU output and it still works quite OK.
            I haven't had trouble increasing the voltage on this supply; it is stable at 14v using a single variable resistor, though admittedly it won't go much higher. The supply uses an ATX-2005Z PWM Controller which has the ability to monitor the 3.3v, 5v, and 12v rails.

            Ripple voltage on the output is well within acceptable limits, <20mv at idle and <75mv under a steady load. Problems only arise when the load is extremely transient and knocking on 15 amps, as in the case of transmitting in SSB mode.
            Attached Files

            Comment

            • Behemot
              Badcaps Legend
              • Dec 2009
              • 4845
              • CZ

              #7
              Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

              It's too high for such PoS if you don't load other rails as well (or modify them for the controller to think there is low voltage). Also have you strengthened the output filtration?
              Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

              Exclusive caps, meters and more!
              Hardware Insights - power supply reviews and more!

              Comment

              • sententia
                Badcaps Veteran
                • Oct 2013
                • 269
                • Greece

                #8
                Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

                When using this mod do all other voltage rails get altered in their outputs?
                If so should one check the capacitors of the other rails as they can be damaged?

                Comment

                • Behemot
                  Badcaps Legend
                  • Dec 2009
                  • 4845
                  • CZ

                  #9
                  Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

                  There are usually caps for 10 V which should be fine. The thing I am point to is that if he loads just +12 V on it's max power, the other rails with no load on them may go to hell making the feedback turn it off.
                  Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

                  Exclusive caps, meters and more!
                  Hardware Insights - power supply reviews and more!

                  Comment

                  • Pinhead
                    Member
                    • Nov 2013
                    • 28
                    • United States

                    #10
                    Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

                    Originally posted by Behemot
                    It's too high for such PoS if you don't load other rails as well (or modify them for the controller to think there is low voltage). Also have you strengthened the output filtration?
                    I modified the regulator feedback to maintain steady voltage based on the 12v rail instead of the 5v rail. Loading of the lower voltage rails is unnecessary when this is done; loading them would do nothing more than dump more heat into the main transformer.

                    I replaced the bulged originals with higher capacitance and higher voltage rated capacitors, though the PSU could probably benefit from low ESR equivalents.

                    Originally posted by sententia
                    When using this mod do all other voltage rails get altered in their outputs?
                    If so should one check the capacitors of the other rails as they can be damaged?
                    Yes, the voltages on the other rails increase along with the 12v rail. They will increase even further when high current is drawn from the 12v rail (and therefore the PWM increases the duty cycle through the main transformer which increases all of the output voltages). Tricking the PWM controller into believing the 3.3v and 5v rails are closer to 3.3v and 5v may increase the PSU's usable voltage range. In fact, come to think of it, this could be why the PSU is shutting down; a heavy load on the 12v rail will increase the voltage on the 3.3 and 5 volt rails which could be triggering the PSU's over-voltage protection. I'll have to look into that.

                    I replaced the 5v filter capacitors with 10v capacitors and the 3.3v capacitors were replaced with 6v capacitors. I would much rather simply disable and remove the lower voltage rails, however, to free up room on the board and simplify the layout of the entire power supply.
                    Last edited by Pinhead; 11-08-2013, 01:55 PM.

                    Comment

                    • Behemot
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Dec 2009
                      • 4845
                      • CZ

                      #11
                      Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

                      That's exactly what I said…
                      Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

                      Exclusive caps, meters and more!
                      Hardware Insights - power supply reviews and more!

                      Comment

                      • Pinhead
                        Member
                        • Nov 2013
                        • 28
                        • United States

                        #12
                        Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

                        Originally posted by Behemot
                        That's exactly what I said…
                        Yes, I should have clarified; your statement triggered an epiphany. I should have thanked you.

                        Comment

                        • Pentium4
                          CapXon Be Gone
                          • Sep 2011
                          • 3741
                          • USA

                          #13
                          Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

                          Would love to see those pictures

                          Comment

                          • senz_90
                            Badcaps Veteran
                            • Aug 2013
                            • 328
                            • Indonesia

                            #14
                            Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

                            hey, thank you for file attached. i wasn't find those IC on googling before..

                            my PSU has a problem +5VSB on pin 9. others rails is normal, but +5VSB doesn't normal. i just think the problem on the IC..

                            yeah, i would love to see the pictures too
                            "There is no shortcut to be successful. No pain, no gain."

                            Best Regards
                            Rudi
                            Thank You

                            Comment

                            • Behemot
                              Badcaps Legend
                              • Dec 2009
                              • 4845
                              • CZ

                              #15
                              Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

                              What exactly is not normal there? Too low voltage?
                              Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

                              Exclusive caps, meters and more!
                              Hardware Insights - power supply reviews and more!

                              Comment

                              • senz_90
                                Badcaps Veteran
                                • Aug 2013
                                • 328
                                • Indonesia

                                #16
                                Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

                                yeah, it is just 0.23 V if I am not wrong to remember.

                                i know this is out of topic and looks like hijack this thread. I checks all resistor, caps and diode near the IC and normal. The PSU just laying down here on my bench because I makes wrong action when measuring and get her shorted, But I just wanna know what do you think? what is the culprit of low SBV? start up resistor, start up caps maybe?
                                "There is no shortcut to be successful. No pain, no gain."

                                Best Regards
                                Rudi
                                Thank You

                                Comment

                                • Behemot
                                  Badcaps Legend
                                  • Dec 2009
                                  • 4845
                                  • CZ

                                  #17
                                  Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

                                  Depends on the curcuitry used, if that's some kind of two-transistor forward or there is PWM IC with integrated trasnistor. Better open new thread for that, provide some pics and so…
                                  Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

                                  Exclusive caps, meters and more!
                                  Hardware Insights - power supply reviews and more!

                                  Comment

                                  • senz_90
                                    Badcaps Veteran
                                    • Aug 2013
                                    • 328
                                    • Indonesia

                                    #18
                                    Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

                                    yeah. i think to open a new thread after fix my CRT computer display. I just try to fix my CRT recently because it just laying down in my warehouse and looks waste it.

                                    I hope this PSU could be fixed because my dumb action before, it has good design that I think is worth enough to fix compare with others cheapo PSU that I have. no EMI filter, X and Y caps, phi filter, small 33 mains transformer, small value caps on secondary (1000uf)

                                    I hope someone's could help me, especially you
                                    "There is no shortcut to be successful. No pain, no gain."

                                    Best Regards
                                    Rudi
                                    Thank You

                                    Comment

                                    • Pinhead
                                      Member
                                      • Nov 2013
                                      • 28
                                      • United States

                                      #19
                                      Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

                                      I did a little more checking on Friday and this is what I came up with.

                                      The 3.3v rail is separately regulated and is still at exactly 3.33 volts.

                                      The 5v rail has gone up to 6.3 volts (6.6v under load) but since I removed the feedback from the 5v rail it shouldn't be tripping the OVP. Capacitors are all 10v rated.

                                      The 12v rail has 16v capacitors and is right at 14v. This is where it gets strange, however. Pin 6 of the PWM chip monitors the 12v rail for OVP. Instead of 12v on this pin, it has 0.778v which increases to roughly 0.85v under load which is about the point that the PSU shuts down.

                                      I've attached the PDF that contains the datasheet for the ATX-2005Z PWM controller.

                                      Main Input Capacitors: 85°C Koshin 330uF/200v
                                      Main Switchers: D13007K 606II (x2), CET 6588Z CEF062N6A
                                      Secondary: LT6220 SBK2045CT, PEC614 SB1660CT, LT6206 SBL3045PT
                                      Transformer: ERL-35-2005

                                      Images to come.
                                      Attached Files

                                      Comment

                                      • ben7
                                        Capaholic
                                        • Jan 2011
                                        • 4059
                                        • USA

                                        #20
                                        Re: ATX PSU, 13.8v

                                        Those deer PSUs are crap.

                                        I suggest you replace the 330uF input capacitors with 680uF ones. Sometimes deer uses 2A diodes for the mains rectification - those aren't good enough for 250 watts! Replace them with 3A diodes, or install a bridge rectifier. How hot do the heatsinks get? How hot does the transformer get? What brand are the secondary side capacitors? Have you tried replacing ALL electrolytic capacitors?
                                        Muh-soggy-knee

                                        Comment

                                        Related Topics

                                        Collapse

                                        • Tynan Dill
                                          Vizio e601i-A3 - Has Sound and Display, But No Backlight - Bad Power Supply Board or Bad LED Bulbs ?
                                          by Tynan Dill
                                          I was given this TV from my great uncle. He said it just wouldn't turn on one day out of nowhere, replaced the TV, and gave it to me to possibly fix and use for myself.

                                          Upon bringing it home and plugging it up, it showed a standby light.

                                          I powered it on and without a flashlight, the display showed the "V" but the lighting is very dim, but visible.

                                          The screen seems to blackout and stay black, but with a flashlight I can see the display.

                                          With my Playstation 4 connected via HDMI, and running a game I can hear sound.

                                          Assuming...
                                          11-22-2024, 01:46 PM
                                        • Victor Moreira Silva
                                          Acer Nitro 5 LA-L181p power LED turns on by 5 secs (Short on PCH rail?)
                                          by Victor Moreira Silva
                                          Hello everyone,

                                          I'm trying to repair my old Acer Nitro 5 (AN517-54-55T5). I've already bought a new laptop, so this is more of a learning project. For the experience, with no high expectations of success.

                                          Well, my decice specs are the following:

                                          Model: Acer Nitro 5 AN517-54-55T5
                                          CPU: Intel Core i5-11400H
                                          GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650
                                          Motherboard: GH51G LA-L181P Rev:1c

                                          The symptom:
                                          When pressing the power button, the power LED lights up for about 5 seconds and then turns off. Initially, the issue was intermittent: sometimes...
                                          05-26-2025, 10:49 AM
                                        • PantherDave
                                          Microsoft Surface Pro (5th gen) model 1796 - no power
                                          by PantherDave
                                          Hi all!

                                          I'm trying to troubleshoot a Microsoft Surface Pro (5th gen) model 1796 that won't power on. Motherboard model is M1007506-015. My priority is retrieving data, but the SSD is integrated so it looks like if I can't repair it it'll need to go to a data recovery company. I've done a little basic board repair before, but nothing this advanced until now. So please forgive my ignorance in advance. 😅

                                          I found the boardview for this laptop in the forums here, and am able to open it on my PC with FlexBV.
                                          https://www.badcaps.net/forum/troubl...-hardware-devi...
                                          05-29-2024, 02:01 PM
                                        • GLISIT
                                          Asus Probook P5440UF-XB74 power issue
                                          by GLISIT
                                          Hi all,

                                          TL;DR - this laptop is driving me nuts with the oddball power-related behaviors. Appreciate any insight you can provide!


                                          I'm experiencing a power issue on an Asus Probook P5440UF-XB74. Although I've worked with electronics and computers for decades, this is my first attempt at getting into motherboard-level component troubleshooting. Any help the community can provide is greatly appreciated!

                                          A few weeks ago I was using the laptop (on battery power) for a Zoom meeting. The battery was running very low (long meeting) but I wasn't worried about...
                                          01-16-2025, 02:29 PM
                                        • sam_sam_sam
                                          Desoldering gun station modified to use a 18 volt @ 20 amp switching power supply
                                          by sam_sam_sam
                                          I have wanting to do this project for quite sometime now and I finally found a switching power supply that will work on this desoldering gun station ZD-915 that the original switching power supply took a shit and just was not worth trying to fix it because this switching power is not quite big enough to handle the heater element and the vacuum pump

                                          One note when I tested the switching power supply and the voltage control board I noticed that this desoldering gun heat up much faster than the original switching power supply which I was really surprised by to the point that I might buy...
                                          03-31-2024, 02:12 PM
                                        • Loading...
                                        • No more items.
                                        Working...