Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Have I posted these ones?
Controller seems to be a PIC - so some kind of Digitally controlled thing...

Have no idea how that thing works...
And it seems to regulate every voltage independently with its own transformer?!

Microcontroller based PSUs are common in server PSUs and will be working their way into high end desktop PSUs. That kind of fine control is how higher efficiency is achieved and integrates protection functions, flexibly. There is firmware loaded into the microcontroller, so simply replacing the PIC or other brand of device won't fix it.

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Yep, and actually, likely the first power devices which used this approach were UPS, which have microprocessors at least since early 90s, maybe longer. Still, when the CPU goes bad, you are usually finished as you don't have the program in it.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

It's a very strange design, indeed. Looks almost like each rail is mag-amp regulated, or something like that. But who knows. In any case, I would NOT want to try to troubleshoot that if something went wrong with it. Granted, at least I see lots of through-hole resistors there, so looks like there may not be that many SMD parts (if any?). That will certainly make troubleshooting easier, but not by much, simply due to the complexity of this PSU.

Yeah, one of the more interesting things I've seeen. And I don't even know what the transformer is and how it works.

Anyway, I think its a unit based on LLC Resonant mode converter. and it has a seperate circuit for every voltage the PSU had because at the time it made more sense than a buck regulator would have.

I really liked to know the eletrical performance of the unit and especially the efficiency of it. Because of the WTX connector I wasn't able to test it sadly...

[goodpsusearch]

tmp PX-250W (K-Mex Maxpower)

tmp PX-250W (K-Mex Maxpower)

The most valuable part of this power supply is the fan. It is a Power Logic sleeve bearing fan.

No 12V connector and 2 diodes on a bracket for 12V rail.

3.3V uses PHP45N03LT FET.

Pics attached

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Hmm... That looks like an Everpower/Zumax unit. I think they were related to Topower at some point (but obviously much more underbuilt).

The heatsinks don't look too bad either - better than some good 200-250 Watt units I have. And the input caps seem to be about 470 uF, which is not bad for a 200-250W unit. I would save those too.
(Well, in all honesty, I'd probably save the whole thing, as you never know when you need part from a junk PSU like this... and I have in the past. Or perhaps, that's just the hoarder in me speaking here. )

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Wow! That thing was built in July of 2001. I was still at Delta, I don't want to think how many jobs ago. Definitely from the era before PSUs went 12V heavy, and the 12V "rectifier" might not be good for whatever it's rated to be. Those 470uF input caps are about right for the 200W-250W power range.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

It is going to be used for parts

[kevin!]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

k!, that looks like a flyback topology power supply, possibly self-oscillating. The inductor with a green painted core looks more like an input common mode inductor. I don't think that has PFC. The curie temperature for ferrites (the temperature at which they lose their magnetic properties) is typically around 200C, so the only concern about being close to the heatsink would be whether there's a large voltage difference between the inductor winding and the heatsink.

All that said, flyback designs do stress output capacitors, and it looks like the manufacturer went with good parts.

Ok, thanks, I'm worried about the coil, although it has insulation, but I do not know if that insulating tape is able to avoid an electric arc.
But I really liked the design, I could add more insulation and solve the problem.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

This post belongs to a series of Deer power supply presentations that started here. There are 3 more power supplies that I am going to show you, but they don't quite belong to the gutless power supply thread. So I am going to post them here

1/3
JNC LC-B450E

Wow! The first semi-decent Deer power supply!

It actually has some AC filtering, but needs an add on board from another Deer psu, then it would have all the necessary parts. And those simple ceramic caps need to be replaced with proper X and Y caps. 2 MOVs need to be added too.

The primary caps are rated for 470uF and their real capacitance was found about 490uF.

The main transistors are 2x TT2194, rated for 12A continuous, 20A pulsed, in TO-220 package. Those should be good for 300W max, the stocky heatsinks help them do that without burning.

The PWM/supervisor is the Chip of the year 2003.

3.3V and 5V voltage rails have pi coils and 2 caps per rail installed, 12V gets 1x 2200uF 16V cap and a coil.

The output toroid coils are large and nice for 300W.

3.3V and 5V get SBL3040PT rectifier.

For 12V output there is a UF1002CT good for just 10A, but it can easily be replaced with a 30A part.

There is a thermistor and a fan controller circuit installed too!

The only major let down is the size of transformers! If only they were real ERL 35 and EEL 19 size, then the psu would be good for 300W maybe 350W peak.

Unfortunately, it doesn't have SATA connector and the ATX connector is just 20pin. No PCI express connector too.

Funny thing: The psu has the white cable for negative 5V installed, and the toroid coil has the extra wire for that rail, but all the other parts have been removed. Oh, Deer! What a waste of money

The power supply is working

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

The output transformer probably limits it to around 200W, maybe a bit higher. Moving past that, the 470uF input caps probably limit it to around 250W if decent hold-up time is wanted. The 50A 5V and 18A 12V current ratings are fantasyland, as in, "For how many milliseconds?".

Maybe call it anorexic rather than gutless.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

2/3
Premier DR-8460BTX (MAX 450W)

Don't let the model confuse you. This unit has nothing to do with the gutless wonders with 1 small cap per output rail, posted previously.

As you can see in the following pictures, there are coils for every voltage output filter, even -12V gets 1 cap and a coil.

The main transistors are 2x KSH13007A and the main transformer is real ERL 35. The heatsinks could be better though.

There is a 5A SR560FC rectifier, that comes in TO-220AC package attached to heatsink.

The other rectifiers are configured as follows:
-SBL2045CT @ 3.3V
-SB3045PT @ 5V
-SB2060CT @ 12V

The power supply works, there is a place for a fan controller on a separate board, but it hasn't been installed. The fan runs constantly at 12V and is as loud as it gets.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

3/3
Premier DR-8460BTX (MAX 450W)

This is the best of all the Deer power supplies posted lately, but unfortunately most of the parts of the 5vsb circuit are badly burnt.

-There is space on PCB for all the parts needed for a complete input filter.

-2X TT2194 rated for 12A continuous, 20A pulsed, in TO-220 package, good for 300W, but the 33 size transformer limits the unit to 250W.

-SR560FC (5A) schottky rectifier for 5vsb

-SBL2045CT (20A) schottky rectifier for 3.3V

-2x SBL2045CT (40A) schottky rectifier for 5V

-SB3060PT (30A) schottky rectifier for 12V

-thermally controlled fan speed

-2x2200uf caps and a coil for 3.3V & 5V

-2x1000uF caps and a coil for 12V

Fuse is blown.

[Dan81]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

2/3
Premier DR-8460BTX (MAX 450W)

Don't let the model confuse you. This unit has nothing to do with the gutless wonders with 1 small cap per output rail, posted previously.

As you can see in the following pictures, there are coils for every voltage output filter, even -12V gets 1 cap and a coil.

The main transistors are 2x KSH13007A and the main transformer is real ERL 35. The heatsinks could be better though.

There is a 5A SR560FC rectifier, that comes in TO-220AC package attached to heatsink.

The other rectifiers are configured as follows:
-SBL2045CT @ 3.3V
-SB3045PT @ 5V
-SB2060CT @ 12V

The power supply works, there is a place for a fan controller on a separate board, but it hasn't been installed. The fan runs constantly at 12V and is as loud as it gets.

Sorry to burst your bubble but I've gutted two Allied units with the same configuration and that transformer isn't a real 35. It's a ERL-28 but with rounded edges. (I've seen those and even have one, with the bottom clearly saying ERL-28.)

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

2/3
Premier DR-8460BTX (MAX 450W)

Don't let the model confuse you. This unit has nothing to do with the gutless wonders with 1 small cap per output rail, posted previously.

As you can see in the following pictures, there are coils for every voltage output filter, even -12V gets 1 cap and a coil.

The main transistors are 2x KSH13007A and the main transformer is real ERL 35. The heatsinks could be better though.

There is a 5A SR560FC rectifier, that comes in TO-220AC package attached to heatsink.

The other rectifiers are configured as follows:
-SBL2045CT @ 3.3V
-SB3045PT @ 5V
-SB2060CT @ 12V

The power supply works, there is a place for a fan controller on a separate board, but it hasn't been installed. The fan runs constantly at 12V and is as loud as it gets.

IF those input rectifiers are rated for at least 3A I'd say that thing is good for 250W-300W. I don't think those switch transistors, output transformer, and heatsink are good for 450W, and with 470uF input caps the hold-up time at 450W would be very poor.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

3/3
Premier DR-8460BTX (MAX 450W)

This is the best of all the Deer power supplies posted lately, but unfortunately most of the parts of the 5vsb circuit are badly burnt.

-There is space on PCB for all the parts needed for a complete input filter.

-2X TT2194 rated for 12A continuous, 20A pulsed, in TO-220 package, good for 300W, but the 33 size transformer limits the unit to 250W.

-SR560FC (5A) schottky rectifier for 5vsb

-SBL2045CT (20A) schottky rectifier for 3.3V

-2x SBL2045CT (40A) schottky rectifier for 5V

-SB3060PT (30A) schottky rectifier for 12V

-thermally controlled fan speed

-2x2200uf caps and a coil for 3.3V & 5V

-2x1000uF caps and a coil for 12V

Fuse is blown.

those 470uF input caps would give decent hold-up time for only 250W-300W.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

2/3
Premier DR-8460BTX (MAX 450W)
...
The power supply works, there is a place for a fan controller on a separate board, but it hasn't been installed. The fan runs constantly at 12V and is as loud as it gets.

What the actual fuck, the PCB is completely discolored yet the fan runs at 12v?
Is the efficiency of the PSU below 3% then?

[RukyCon]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

What the actual fuck, the PCB is completely discolored yet the fan runs at 12v?
Is the efficiency of the PSU below 3% then?

Or maybe the fan is crap.

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

1/3
JNC LC-B450E

Wow! The first semi-decent Deer power supply!

Not bad indeed.

I wouldn't worry too much about the 20-pin ATX connector - I haven't found a 24-pin motherboard that wouldn't work with a 20-pin PSU. Most of my "better" PSUs are 20-pin anyways

As for the lack of a PCI-E power connector - this PSU was never built/intended to run a high-end GPU, so it's a good thing they didn't include one. I doubt the wire on the output torroid for the 12V rail can handle more than 10-12 Amps continuous without overheating. Thus, a 12V-based motherboard and a medium/high-end GPU with a single PCI-E power connector probably will easily overload the PSU's 12V rail capabilities - even with an upgraded rectifier.

The lack of SATA connectors is a big annoyance, though. Even *I* have plenty of computers now that have SATA HDDs - and I have always preferred to stick with oldschool reliable PATA HDDs whenever possible.

Funny thing: The psu has the white cable for negative 5V installed, and the toroid coil has the extra wire for that rail, but all the other parts have been removed. Oh, Deer! What a waste of money

Lol, reminds me of that L&C I posted that had all of the output PI coils installed buy bypassed on the bottom with a trace.
- Deer quality!

2/3
Premier DR-8460BTX (MAX 450W)
...
The main transistors are 2x KSH13007A and the main transformer is real ERL 35.

Looks a bit short in the picture.
The only way to tell "real" 35 transformers from "fake" ones is to actually take a ruler and measure it on the top - it should be 35 mm in length (hence the "35" number). As for the width, I'm not sure... but clearly the thicker, the better.

3/3
Premier DR-8460BTX (MAX 450W)

This is the best of all the Deer power supplies posted lately, but unfortunately most of the parts of the 5vsb circuit are badly burnt.

Yup, that's what happens when you have bad output caps on a 2-transistor 5VSB circuit.

-2X TT2194 rated for 12A continuous, 20A pulsed, in TO-220 package, good for 300W, but the 33 size transformer limits the unit to 250W.

Again, measure the transformer and see for yourself. If it's only 33 mm, then it is a "33" transformer. At least it looks like they put a good number of turns on it - that in itself can allow for a higher power draw as well (remember that thread where the_unique made his own PSU for an amplifier out of junk PSUs like this, and he was able to pull more than 400 Watts IIRC from a "33" transformer that he rewound himself).

Fuse is blown.

Ooops.
Gonna fix it?

What the actual fuck, the PCB is completely discolored yet the fan runs at 12v?
Is the efficiency of the PSU below 3% then?

Nah, just cheap phenolic paper PCB. The dark orange ones like this are the worst - it takes very little heat to discolor them. Also, probably the 2-transistor 5VSB circuit was starting to go bonkers, hence the most discoloration occurring around the 5VSB sections.

[Dan81]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Looks a bit short in the picture.
The only way to tell "real" 35 transformers from "fake" ones is to actually take a ruler and measure it on the top - it should be 35 mm in length (hence the "35" number). As for the width, I'm not sure... but clearly the thicker, the better.

I can clearly tell you that's a 28. Just look at the spacing. I've had two of these. You may be able to get away with a 33 but don't expect to find a real 35 to put in there. They have some bizzare spacing for the 220v side.

Same goes for the B-side Deers. I personally have one and the only way I could upgrade it to a semi-decent PSU (main switchers are still 13007s) was by finding by chance a 400W Premier LC-B400ATX that had a real 35 transformer (same as the ones found in some Allied models, marked LT535ASF000) and real 16 and 19 transformers, but the heatsinks were crappy and 5vsb cap leaking. I took the transformers and scrapped the rest, and installed them in another Deer PSU (same inverted "B-side" design) that had all the spots for inductors and PI coils. There are some pictures in the other PSU thread if you want to check it. The only thing I need now is to find the sweet secondary rectifier configuration for 12v operation and to upgrade the main switchers to something better (either going for 13009s or D209Ls.)

[jarvis7]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Hello , i have a quick question,

This is a 10$ power supply

https://imgur.com/a/mBqtW

that has 2x 330uf 280v rated primary caps , will replacing them with 2 x 470 uf 200v "be safe" for both caps and PSU ? as replacement caps have lower voltage rating and will this power supply be able to handle higher capacitance ? i get 220v mains


just trying to experiment/test hold up time and see compatibility with my inverter switch over time.. it is in a basic spare old system , used occasionally

Thanks