the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

[Dan81]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

I suspect the Sapcons went dry on the Raidmax. I just got two iMicros and one happens to have been recapped with Samxons - I might pull all of them and swap them into the Raidmax and hope for the best.

If anything, I also suspect the 12v rectifier being dead (or both of them, I dunno yet.) as I found a 2x Molex to 6pin PCI-E adapter on it... not a good sign at all.

I might also have some spares to use for the Huntkey unit, as well as PI coils.

[momaka]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

With those input rectifiers, the TO-220 switch devices, and the output heatsink I'd say the limit is 250W-300W. If the input lytics are 470uF, then 250W: if lower, then lower power; if highers then maybe 300W.

+1

Also, I'm glad that you mentioned inductor materials and sizes in the past, because I've been paying more attention to this now and often finding that the output inductor tends to heat up quite a bit under load, especially when there is a large cross-load (i.e. too heavy 5V or too heavy 12V load.) In particular, T103-size toroids (1.03" diameter... or 25.5 mm) are usually used in PSUs rated for 300 Watts or less... though the power rating could be stretched a little if the material is type -52 *and* the PSU uses a faster switching frequency (typically single or double-forward designs only, and not half-bridge.)

That said, this PSU looks like it uses T103 size inductor, though I can't tell if it's -52 or -26 material. The material between the windings looks green, so it might be -52, which would be better.
Nevertheless, even with that, I still think this PSU won't be able to do more than 250W reliably long term.

The PI coils are jumpered from what I could tell, but at least they can be installed.

Yeah, those should definitely be installed if you want more than 100 Watts of output without excessive ripple.

Also, ViPER22A for the 5VSB (or at least that's what I think it uses), and real 35 size transformer.

330uF HEC buggers that I doubt have anywhere near that value. (or evwn close to 200uF alone.)

LOL.
Yeah, 330 uF on the primary... and that's if they're real capacity... 150-180 Watts tops.

I very much doubt it can do more than 100W safely, at least for now. The size of the cans makes me think they're barely 180uF or even less at best. And add a decade of usage on them and you won't even get 100W out of it.

Sounds bout right.

Anyways, here's another classic that defines this thread. Won't power on when green/blsck are shorted, but it does produce 5vsb

Interesting that unlike Sun Pro's most designs using the proprietary AT2005B, this one uses an AT2008 PWM chip,aqnd claims to have protections.

Ironic it doesn't work. This looks like one of the better built Sun Pro PSUs. This is why I would never trust a Sun Pro PSU - they are just poorly designed (copied designs from other PSUs) all around. And I never liked the trace spacing on the primary side on their PCBs.

[Dan81]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

I very much doubt it can do more than 100W safely, at least for now. The size of the cans makes me think they're barely 180uF or even less at best. And add a decade of usage on them and you won't even get 100W out of it.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Yeah, 330uF might do for 200W (= decent 50/60Hz ripple, decent low line voltage and hold-up time at nominal line). 220uF or 270uf would be more like 150W. My experience at computer companies is with mini-computers, workstations, and servers, so I may be a bit conservative compared to what is tolerated with some lower-end desktops.

But actually running that thing at 400W+? For how many seconds or minutes, and are you wearing ear protection.

[Dan81]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

330uF HEC buggers that I doubt have anywhere near that value. (or evwn close to 200uF alone.)

Anyways, here's another classic that defines this thread. Won't power on when green/blsck are shorted, but it does produce 5vsb

Interesting that unlike Sun Pro's most designs using the proprietary AT2005B, this one uses an AT2008 PWM chip,aqnd claims to have protections.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

With those input rectifiers, the TO-220 switch devices, and the output heatsink I'd say the limit is 250W-300W. If the input lytics are 470uF, then 250W: if lower, then lower power; if highers then maybe 300W.

[Dan81]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Didn't picture it but it should be the 2 pin header that's on the upwards of the image.

I didn't keep it open for long, just to dust it off.

It's a Huntkey (or at least that's what RealHardTechX claims in one of their PSU tables) and it looks like it has room for improvement. The PI coils are jumpered from what I could tell, but at least they can be installed. Also, ViPER22A for the 5VSB (or at least that's what I think it uses), and real 35 size transformer.

With enough tinkering, this might be a fine 350W unit, theoretically. Practically, I have to check whatever sillicon it uses and upgrade it as necessary.

[TechGeek]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Guess it fits here. Came with a Conroe based Core 2 Duo E4600.

Looks like a 200W supply, and a crap one at that.
EDIT: Where's the fan???

[Dan81]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Guess it fits here. Came with a Conroe based Core 2 Duo E4600.

[momaka]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Side-by-side of a ThermalTake TR2-600NL2NC 600W PSU (left) and a ISO ISO-450 350W PSU (right). Notice any similarities?
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/attach...1&d=1674036591
If people are interested, I'll do a full pictorial of both of them, otherwise, I'm probably going to scrap both of them (since I have far better PSUs).

I picked up two PSUs in January of last year, and one was a ThermaTake like yours or very similar (not sure if 500W or 600W version... just somewhere along the lines.) Same thing I noticed as well - components not quite big enough to handle what the label stated. But I kept it and will recap it. The power ratings on the label are a lie, but the PSU itself I'd say is good enough for a basic/basic+ build. I'm just going to re-label it.

The ISO seems okayish, the ThermalTake seems mostly undersized.

Yes, that ThermalTake definitely won't do 600W. But it's a decent CWT build, as cubecompmtdx noted, and from their ISO line. What I like about the ISO line is that it uses an oldschool half-bridge design and there is no APFC.

In the case of your ThermalTake up there, I can see even an IC for the 5VSB, which is always nice for safety of the 5VSB circuit. Also, it has large TO-247 BJTs for the main switchers and 680 uF primary caps. With good caps on the output, it should definitely be capable of 350W. Maybe even 400W for a few moments. Not a bad PSU, IMO. I'd save it over anything with APFC any day.

BTW, another tell-tale factor I use for deciding if a PSU is worth keeping: if it's an older design (like the above) and if it has a T130 -size output toroid (1.3 inch / 33 mm diameter), it's probably worth saving. PSUs with T103 -size toroids (about 1" or 25 mm diameter) are a coin toss... though - if it's a T103-52 core (light green colored core with blue on one side), it's good. If it's T103-26 (yellow colored core with white on one side), it's about the same as every other generic 200/250W PSU.

BTW x2, looking back some pages, I realized I forgot to reply back to your PM about a scrap 5VSB transformer (though, I'm guessing you probably don't have it anymore?) Anyways, I'll PM you shortly. Sorry about that.

[cubecompmtdx]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Side-by-side of a ThermalTake TR2-600NL2NC 600W PSU (left) and a ISO ISO-450 350W PSU (right). Notice any similarities?

If people are interested, I'll do a full pictorial of both of them, otherwise, I'm probably going to scrap both of them (since I have far better PSUs).

The ISO seems okayish, the ThermalTake seems mostly undersized.

Both of those units are made by Channel Well Technology (CWT for short). The green transformers are a giveaway. I have a Thermaltake Smart M750W 750W unit from 2013 that's made by Channel Well. CWT is an OEM for I believe a handful of brands. CWT has made PSUs for Thermaltake, Antec, Corsair (I believe), and also have been sold under cheap labels like OKIA, ISO, among other generic brands. The quality of the unit all depends on how the requesting company wants their unit built. Kind of like how the quality of PSUs from OEMs like Bestec, HiPro, and Delta depend on which computer OEM they're installed in - The mobo killer Bestec ATX-250-12E is a good example of this... a unit that was built to a much lower standard for eMachines, compared to the ATX-250-12Z, built for HP to a much better standard.

[RukyCon]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

Side-by-side of a ThermalTake TR2-600NL2NC 600W PSU (left) and a ISO ISO-450 350W PSU (right). Notice any similarities?

If people are interested, I'll do a full pictorial of both of them, otherwise, I'm probably going to scrap both of them (since I have far better PSUs).

The ISO seems okayish, the ThermalTake seems mostly undersized.

[PeteS in CA]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

The model number suggests it's a 200W/150W power supply (or maybe the PCB is used for 150W and 200W models). Anyway, the 220uF input caps are about right for 150W. Based on possible clues in the S/N and numbers on the magnetics, I'm going to guess the power supply is 1996 vintage.

[Dan81]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

I would beef it up a bit and keep it should you ever find the desire to build an retro AT machine.

Maybe a personal preference but I would rather put 2-4 hours of work in beefing up an AT unit (which I did to an Essun 200W AT PSU) than having to fiddle with an adapter and an ATX PSU.

[RukyCon]

Moretek MPS-200/150 Power Supply

So here is a power supply that i found in the trash, the PSU appears to be rather old judging by the external switch and minimal output leads.

Label:

Looking at the label, we don't really get much info about the PSU, other than its a 230w unit, and that i shouldn't be taking it apart in five different languages, but that ain't gunna stop me cuz i can't read most of them.

Anyway, here is the forbidden insides (AKA, the board overview):


Well, there isn't a lot to see in here, and TBH, i was kind of suprised when i saw how empty it was inside, mainly because this PSU had a bit of weight to it, but as it would turn out, most of that was in the (suprisingly decent) case this board was placed in. Also, we finally find a proper name and model to go to this unit, Moretec. Now i couldn't find much about them, but the few things i did find were supringly decent, so it's a shame that they stooped so low for this unit, but maybe it could be salvaged.

Primary side:

So in terms of input filtering, it has no input filtering, not even the usual fake Y-class capacitors, we do however, have an NTC themistor and a fuse, a rather cheap looking fuse, but a fuse none the less. The bride rectifier is made up of 4 1n4007 diodes, i want you to look at how tiny and under-rated they are, i mean, they're 1 amp parts, and if this is a 240w PSU, then they would possibly be seeing up to twice their rated current under full load (at 120V, assuming 100% PSU effenicy, which is highly unlikely to be the case), and even at something like 75% load, they'd still be getting overloaded. Now the main capacitors are a pair of Rubycon YKs, rated 220uf, 200v, in which they test at 215uf and 225uf respectivly. They appear to be real Rubycons, which would probably make them some of the best quality parts in this PSU. The main switchers are a pair of (2S)C2810s in a standard dual-foward configeration. The main transformer is 33mm wide by about 29mm tall.

Secondary side:

The filtering for each rail is a follows:
12v: 2x PR3002 (100v, 3A) fast recovery diodes (mounted in a classic diode bracket configeration), Pi Coil (16~18 AWG, 20 turns, 5mm core), Luxon SM 1000uf, 16v capacitor.
5V: S10C40C (10A 40V) schottky rectifier, PI coil (12 AWG, 8 turns, 5mm core), 2x Capxon KM 1000uf 10v capacitors locaded on either side of the coil.
-12V: 3x PR152? (obstructed part number)(1.5A) fast recovery diodes, Capxon KM 470uf 16v capacitor
-5V: 2x PR152? fast recovery diodes, Capxon KM 470uf 16v.

The controller chip is a (TL)494CN, beyond that there,s not much else to note.

The Fan:

Just an older Yate Loon fan, still spins really well.

I'm not really sure what to do with this thing, maybe it might be worth beefing up a tad bit for projects and such, but i don't know.

[Dan81]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

I doubt Topower had anything to do with the label, if at all.

[dmill89]

Re: ZUMAX Technology ZU4000W (X1)

4th... and I have to concur with Dan81 here: I don't think this PSU was made or designed by Topower. The label is indeed likely a BIG lie. The "LP" markings on the transformers and the PCB suggest Leadman Power - a.k.a. Powmax / Sun Pro. This is hands-down my least favorite PSU manufacturer... or most favorite worst manufacturer, I don't know anymore. If it was a Topower unit, those usually have "top..." or "ever-power" text on the transformers.

I guess "Marketed by Topower" doesn't have the same ring to it. Zumax was Topower's "budget" line, but it looks like at least with this unit they just farmed the whole thing out and Topower's involvement was likely limited to slapping a label on it and putting it in a box.

[RukyCon]

Re: ZUMAX Technology ZU400W (X1)

I may actually try putting slightly beefier parts on the secondary and put this PSU into some junker PC that I plan on throwing together out of spare parts (just so I have something at my workbench for looking stuff up while working), and then I can see how many years, or (realistically speaking) months or weeks this thing lasts before giving up the ghost. Though, I won't be wasting any of my 'good' parts on this.

What? WHAT? ... WHYYYY?!

Yeah, that was more or less my exact reaction when I saw that they used a 30A part for a rail that is rated for 2.5A max, but as you mentioned, the part could be a QC reject that Leadman desperately wanted to reuse. I do plan on trying to test the side that had its leg cut off, to see if that side really is defective.

No, they (Powmax / Leadman) actually got that part right... as if by a miracle.

I guess that's my PSU design lesson of the day.
But seriously, I do appreciate you going out of your way to explain that to me, as i'm pretty much fully self-taught when it comes to electronics like this, so this kind of info is the type of stuff i may normally not find online, at least not easily, so thank you.

It WAS worth it - you saved someone else $8 from buying this POS... plus who know how much headaches for them, if they aren't as well-versed in electronics/PSUs/computers as you are. For all you know, you could have saved someone's really important data or only computer from blowing up / burning out when this PSU goes out. It may seem strange to think of it this way... but that's what it is, really.

I hadn't thought about it that way, but now that you mention it, it makes sense, as if i didn't grab it, someone else would have, which is what i think happened to the Rhino SP-450Y PSU i found in the trash back in 2018, since it had a Savers price tag on the bottom of the unit, which says that it was sold at a Savers thrift store, only to be bought, and do who knows what to someone PC (hopefully nothing, but it's hard to know for sure).

Speaking of Savers, I actually picked up a couple PC PSUs from a local Savers recently, one of them needs a bit of work though (a full recap of the secondary).

Oh, and I also got a good chuckle or two out of the design of this PSU, which makes it slightly more worth it to me.

(Yes, don't try using this PSU at all is probably what should be meant.)

Fixed that for ya.

Do any of the cables have a valid UL number or other certificate number? If not, I'd consider the ratings on them at least somewhat questionable - particularly the voltage one.

Actually, none of them do, even the "18AWG" ones lake any safety markings, also, i double-checked the "18AWG" wires again, and found that they're slightly closer to being 19AWG, since they're still thicker than some true 20AWG wire i have, but not quite thick enough to be 18AWG.

At least with this unit you didn't get the cheapest crap heatsinks, though, unlike this Sun Pro KY-480ATX.

I actually came across that post not too long ago, and i remembered that a (now defunct) electronics surplus store in my area had a box full of bare PC PSU boards, all of which looked more or less exactly like that Sun Pro PSU, all the way down to the paper thin heat sinks. How did they get so many, and without the cases, i don't know. I may have taken a few photos of them, but i'll have to see where those photos ended up.

[momaka]

Re: ZUMAX Technology ZU4000W (X1)

OK, my turn now.
And oh... uhm... where should I start here.
.
.
.
Alright, I'll do normal input wiring to output side.

1st: that input "common-mode" choke - WTF is that?! This "thing" has, what, 6-7 turns per side and with regular wire? - LAME!

2nd: ceramic caps dipped in shiny blue paint to look like Y2-class caps - more lame!

3rd: mismatched brands of primary caps?! Which -competent- PSU manufacturer DOES THIS? Seriously, it's like the "production house" literally grabbed whatever part they could find laying around. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if these are recycled parts, given the mismatch. But hey, I'll give them credit - at least the capacitance is matched.

4th... and I have to concur with Dan81 here: I don't think this PSU was made or designed by Topower. The label is indeed likely a BIG lie. The "LP" markings on the transformers and the PCB suggest Leadman Power - a.k.a. Powmax / Sun Pro. This is hands-down my least favorite PSU manufacturer... or most favorite worst manufacturer, I don't know anymore. If it was a Topower unit, those usually have "top..." or "ever-power" text on the transformers.

4.5: the heatsink style is another clue - I don't recall older Topower units using this "T-style" of heatsinks. Powmax / Leadman / Sun Pro, on the other hand, I do. At least with this unit you didn't get the cheapest crap heatsinks, though, unlike this Sun Pro KY-480ATX.

While i don't know a lot about Topower, i'm willing to somewhat bet that they had no say in this PSU design.

You got that right!

OK, let me continue... where was I now, #5? Oh screw it, I lost track already.

The 5VSB/Aux switcher is a C5027S

Awww isn't that cute. But it's wrooooong! (now guess which 90's cartoon I got this from. )
Realistically speaking... even this TO-126 part should do the job for the 5VSB circuit. But come on, it's just cheap not to use a TO-220 part here.

The main transformer is 34mm wide by 29mm tall, which seems a bit small to me.

Yeah, it's probably an ERL/EE/EI-33 size with the yellow tape on the sides off. And you're right, it's definitely too small for 400W - well, at least with this type of single-transistor forward converter design. Actually, even 150W might be asking a bit too much. That 2SK3569 MOSFET in TO-220FP won't be good for too much power.

(looks like they're trying to spoil us by giving us something other than the usual dual forward design ).

Yeah, Powmax / Leadman has used this design quite a bit too. A -good- single-transistor forward design like this can manage 300-350 Watts with decent efficiency. But Powmax's hasn't been noted for that. Look up threads for "LP-6100", "LP-6100c", or "LP-6100d" and you will see. I have the last one (LP-6100d). Even though it looks built quite well, I've read in the past that Powmax's designs can't really hand too much power. Now, of course, I could be wrong about this unit, since it seems like a much more current version from 2011 (based on the PCB's markings)... but I wouldn't count on it.

I like the fact that the felt the need to bodge a wire in parallel with the ground trace, as clearly, this thing would be so powerful that it would melt that trace without that bodge.

Seems like you're enjoying this PSU's build "shenanigans" just like we are.
Yup, this PSU was clearly designed by "professionals". Don't try this at home (Yes, don't try using this PSU at home is probably what should be meant. )

You can also see a few hotspots on the PCB, mainly around the 5VSB/Aux power supply parts of the PSU.

Don't you worry. That 2sc5027s BJT is heatsinked well! The warm 5VSB circuit shall keep all of the caps nice and cozy when the computer is in soft-off mode, so that their ESR is always at optimal levels.

BTW, it looks like the 3.3V rail's linear regulator (MOSFET) has also darkened the PCB underneath it quite a bit.

5VSB: SBL3040PT rectifier (30A! 40V. With one leg cut off!)

What? WHAT? ... WHYYYY?!
... And then they go use a crappy lame SBL1640CT for the 5V rail.
This totally makes sense!
*sigh* Leadman

Makes me wonder if that SBL3040PT is perhaps a reject part... or a salvaged part with one side shorted? Honestly, I can understand doing something like this at home for my own kludgy repairs. But for a PSU company to do this... just WOW.

One thing to note, it appears only one leg of each rectifier is hooked up, which i think effectively halves their current capability.

No, they (Powmax / Leadman) actually got that part right... as if by a miracle.
In a forward-converter design in continuous mode (the main PS of this PSU, not the 5VSB), one side of the output rectifiers is always connected to ground. This is done so that after the "forward" power pulse (switch device on the primary side turning On and Off, sending a "spike" of power through the main transformer and one leg on each rectifier) goes into the output inductor, the output inductor then will want to "maintain" the current going through it. And to do that, it's only path of sourcing current is through the diode in each rectifier connected between ground and the winding on the inductor. This is called free-wheeling. Think of this concept - particularly the output inductor - like the rear wheel on a bike: you push on the pedals and you transfer a pulse of power to the rear wheels with each push. But you don't necessarily need to spin the pedals with constant force/power between each push - the rear sprocket bearing allows the rear wheel to spin freely without making the pedals/chain rotate... hence "free-wheeling". In forwards-converter designs, it's kind of similar to that analogy.

The other cables appear to be 20 or 22AWG wire, but it's hard to tell because they lack any markings.

Do any of the cables have a valid UL number or other certificate number? If not, I'd consider the ratings on them at least somewhat questionable - particularly the voltage one.

Ahh yes, my favorite fan manufacturer, Fan, known for their high quality fans.

Certainly the most "creative" name out there, isn't it.

Probably something like this went along...
Marketing department: Hey boss, we came up with these name's for our company's fans, but we can't quite decide yet. What do you think of them?
Boss (thinking in his/her head): Does the company really need a marketing department? Nah...
Boss: Your service of your department are no longer needed. You can all go home now.
Marketing department: But boss, what about the product's name? You can't just--
Boss: Fan. Our product will just bare the name 'fan'. No go home.

Anyway, that's it for this PSU, i'm not sure what to do with it, since it seems like it could be modded and even beefed up a bit, but i guess that depends on what others think the best course of action is for this thing.

Well, I'd say do whatever you feel like with this PSU.
You could "beef it up" and try to improve it... but to be completely honest, I don't know how much your efforts will make a difference. It seems like a not-so-great PSU, really. Of course, if you wanted to do that just for fun and then somehow stress-test it and see if it blows up or does something funny, then by all means do.

you can also see the goodwill price tag, with how much i paid for this thing (and in a moment, we will find out if it was worth it (spoilers if you read the thread name)).

It WAS worth it - you saved someone else $8 from buying this POS... plus who know how much headaches for them, if they aren't as well-versed in electronics/PSUs/computers as you are. For all you know, you could have saved someone's really important data or only computer from blowing up / burning out when this PSU goes out. It may seem strange to think of it this way... but that's what it is, really.

[Dan81]

Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

I wouldn't truat that doing ANY watt in spec. Remember, it's a Leadman/Powmax, and it's one of their worst platform designs ever made.